[ SECRET POST #2293 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2293 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 105 secrets from Secret Submission Post #328.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

How is her character sexist? 0.0" Mind, I'm only halfway into s6, but still.

Confused anon is confused.

[(Anonymous)]

You and me both. An explanation would be really appreciated at this point.

[(Anonymous)]

You'll find out at the conclusion of series 6, but it basically boils down to all the secrets about River and everything in her life has to do with the Doctor, so she really has no identity outside of him.

It's all extremely disappointing and turned a character with potential into... I don't even know what.

[fenm]

There's also the whole "Don't let him see the damage/don't let his see you age" thing. Said by River to Amy after River gets a broken wrist and tries to hide it from the Doctor. Because God forbid a woman be less than perfect for her man, right? Jesus.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes- I found that really shocking to watch actually, don't show weakness in front of him otherwise he'll leave you behind.

*SPOILER*

But I think the Doctor's idea, that he could leave her alone and expect her to escape without hurting herself without any help or support despite the fact she asked, was wrong. He's always been the one to say he'd always help, he dedicates his life to helping.

[fenm]

Yeah. I really hate the way Moffat often writes the Doctor as a tantrum-throwing child. Which is why he left her to deal with it herself; HE was upset about something, so River just had to suck it up. And then he gets upset about her injury, which he very well could have prevented from happening.

[intrigueing]

Well I think the story was saying he couldn't have prevented it from happening, because it was already written (although I don't get how that works if he could go back in time and cause Van Gogh's monster painting to change yada yada that episode has too many plot holes) but the way he reacted without either trying to help her get out or help her break her wrist as carefully as possible when it failed was just bizarre.

[fauxkaren]

Because time can be rewritten unless it can't because of Reasons.

[fenm]

Well I think the story was saying he couldn't have prevented it from happening.

Which doesn't justify his attitude. The Doctor's dealt with a LOT of shit he can't change--including the extinction of his whole race--without acting like a 2-year-old.

[(Anonymous)]

don't show weakness in front of him otherwise he'll leave you behind.

I have no idea where that's even supposed to have come from anyway. Or the whole wtf fandom idea that the Doctor abandons companions. He has never left behind a companion who didn't want to leave him unless there were external circumstances (I mean, yes, the circumstances for Sarah Jane, Jack, and Susan weren't exactly extenuating, but he sure as hell wasn't happy to leave them. He thought it was for Susan's own good, developed a sudden massive alien phobia for revived!Jack, and only left Sarah Jane because he couldn't take her with him and didn't go back because he was apparently was under the impression she had moved on).

[(Anonymous)]

I think his leaving of Jack was mean and horrible, and for all those years just abandoning him. I don't feel there's an excuse. I mean I'm not one of those fans who think he deserves to be beaten up for it (such a bizzare trope in some fan fic IMO) but I do feel it was totally out of order.

[(Anonymous)]

Well yes I agree, but what I mean is that he didn't leave Jack because Jack got old or was weak or he stopped liking Jack or something, there was an externally-imposed reason, albeit a really shitty one (although I obviously can't say exactly how that fixed-point phobia works).

So River's ~"don't let him see you age" and this idea that he makes a habit of dumping people who don't want to leave because he stops wanting them around is still crap.

[(Anonymous)]

Ugh yeah that line bothered me a lot too. Why would you be with someone when you don't want them to ever see you age or get hurt? Even if we didn't know River was going to die, that relationship was just never going to end well.

[fauxkaren]

Ugh. I hate the way that the Doctor and River treat each other.

Like in "The Wedding of River Song" when the Doctor berates River and tells her that she embarrasses him? And then River tells the Doctor that he embarrasses her in "The Angels Take Manhattan"?

[fenm]

Yeah... why did these two get married? They seem to honestly irritate and annoy each other more than anything. Is this really Moffat's idea of a good relationship?

[fauxkaren]

Well they got married because River was obsessed with the Doctor due to being brainwashed to kill him as a child and then subsequently she grew up to study him academically. And therefore after meeting him twice, she loved him enough to let the universe die for him.

And so the Doctor married River to... placate her, I guess? So that she wouldn't let the universe be destroyed?

IDEK.

GOD THEIR RELATIONSHIP IS A DISASTER.

[(Anonymous)]

Waaaaiiiit...was the Wedding really the first time she met him after Let's Kill Hitler? I thought she'd dallied with him on occasion between those two points, either future!him or 200-year-alone-time!him.

[(Anonymous)]

The wedding of river song made me more angry then any WHO finale ever had before. I'm not sure I can even explain my expression while watching it, and after I was done I vowed to never watch it again.

Like it was the final nail in the coffin of River's character assassination.

And all that bullshit Moffat fed us about River being this big mystery and the mystery was more then her just being the Doctor's wife and guess what she ended up being? The Doctor's fucking wife.

But it was such more worse then just being the Doctor's wife because she had no identity of her own and the Doctor treated her like absolutely shit and was condescending to her on the same damn day that they get married.

Like I can't. I just can't.

[fenm]

Also being Amy and Rory's kid, which I (and MANY others) figured out months before (during "The Impossible Astronaut", in my case). Seriously, I kept waiting for there to be more, because... because Moffat couldn't be making such a mystery out of something so damn obvious that most fans I heard from had guessed it already... could he?

[(Anonymous)]

Like in "The Wedding of River Song" when the Doctor berates River and tells her that she embarrasses him?

Oh...I hated "The Wedding of River Song" but I actually really liked that line. It was very "It's my honor, Wilf", the idea that not only is he willing to die for the universe, he finds it insulting or impugning on his personal honor, and therefore humiliating, for the universe to be put in danger because he's being stopped from saving it.

Maybe it was a bit jerky to River, but she was acting like a selfish asshole and I'm not really all that invested in their relationship.

[poisonarcana]

THIS. River turned into a selfish monster in TWoRS, and frankly, she deserved much, much more than the all-too-brief talking-to (and the life sentences at the Stormcage where she breaks out for hair appointments and birthdays or whenever else she feels like it) she got for endangering EVERY SINGLE LIVING THING IN THE UNIVERSE, INCLUDING HER PARENTS.

[akacat]

I took that whole exchange as a statement of the way the Doctor views things as a Time Lord. Or at least, how River thinks he views things. That she thinks he tries to ignore how short-lived nearly everyone else is, and has trouble dealing with it when it's brought to his attention.

Maybe I'm giving Moffat too much credit, but that's just where my mind goes when there's such a drastic difference in the life spns of a couple.

[fenm]

That she thinks he tries to ignore how short-lived nearly everyone else

That's not applicable to the "damage" thing, though. Or the situation, really. She broke her wrist, that's not an age thing.

And we've seen the Doctor--in things not written by Moffat--reunite with people he knew when they were younger and be fine with them being older. So that might be River's view of the Doctor, but it's clearly, demonstratively wrong. Yet no where does the episode SAY she's wrong.

[(Anonymous)]

But remember, major injuries to a Time Lord = regeneration and erasure. To a human, it means = arthritis and eventually a shorter, non-repeating life.

It had nothing to do with image. It had to do with River not wanting the Doctor to have to deal with the mortality of those he loves.

[(Anonymous)]

But that's...sort of bogus? I mean, yeah, the Doctor doesn't like seeing people he loves get old when he doesn't get old with them, but that's his problem and he's always known it and admitted it, and he's never given the indication that he would ever want someone to hide who they are for him, to the point of being sort of faily and overzealous about trying to push them into not giving up too much for him, like his reaction to Rose deciding to leave her family in the other universe, or leaving Sarah Jane and never going back to see her because he thought she was getting on in her life and didn't need him bothering her.

And it wasn't just about age -- it was about never letting him "see the damage" like the wrist, never letting him see their pain. Which is also total rubbish, since the Doctor always wants to help people in pain and try to make unhappy people feel better. That's like, his whole MO.