[ SECRET POST #2293 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2293 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 105 secrets from Secret Submission Post #328.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

09. http://i.imgur.com/FC0TS7N.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

How is her character sexist? 0.0" Mind, I'm only halfway into s6, but still.

Confused anon is confused.

[(Anonymous)]

You and me both. An explanation would be really appreciated at this point.

[(Anonymous)]

You'll find out at the conclusion of series 6, but it basically boils down to all the secrets about River and everything in her life has to do with the Doctor, so she really has no identity outside of him.

It's all extremely disappointing and turned a character with potential into... I don't even know what.

[fenm]

There's also the whole "Don't let him see the damage/don't let his see you age" thing. Said by River to Amy after River gets a broken wrist and tries to hide it from the Doctor. Because God forbid a woman be less than perfect for her man, right? Jesus.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes- I found that really shocking to watch actually, don't show weakness in front of him otherwise he'll leave you behind.

*SPOILER*

But I think the Doctor's idea, that he could leave her alone and expect her to escape without hurting herself without any help or support despite the fact she asked, was wrong. He's always been the one to say he'd always help, he dedicates his life to helping.

[(Anonymous)]

Ugh yeah that line bothered me a lot too. Why would you be with someone when you don't want them to ever see you age or get hurt? Even if we didn't know River was going to die, that relationship was just never going to end well.

[fauxkaren]

Ugh. I hate the way that the Doctor and River treat each other.

Like in "The Wedding of River Song" when the Doctor berates River and tells her that she embarrasses him? And then River tells the Doctor that he embarrasses her in "The Angels Take Manhattan"?

[akacat]

I took that whole exchange as a statement of the way the Doctor views things as a Time Lord. Or at least, how River thinks he views things. That she thinks he tries to ignore how short-lived nearly everyone else is, and has trouble dealing with it when it's brought to his attention.

Maybe I'm giving Moffat too much credit, but that's just where my mind goes when there's such a drastic difference in the life spns of a couple.

[(Anonymous)]

Sexism? What? HOW?


Anywaaaaaaay, I freakin' ship the hell out of River/Doctor. Which is surprising considering how much of a hardcore Doctor/Rose fan I was (STILL AM), but River is badass and hilarious and the interactions between her and the Doctor are always epically epic.

[(Anonymous)]

you sound thirteen or sixteen and new to fandom

[(Anonymous)]

I'm honestly more okay with this attitude then the one of people who try to deny there's any sexism in her story at all. If you like it, whatever, but don't try to pretend there aren't problems in the story.

[fenm]

then the one of people who try to deny there's any sexism in her story at all.

[looks up at the two replies before you]
Yep, pretty much.

[(Anonymous)]

Those sound more like honest confusion than trying to deny something. Like from people who just watch the show and don't read meta on it. It's the type of sexism that's frighteningly easy to miss. I would have, if I hadn't read fandomsecrets.

[fenm]

Those sound more like honest confusion than trying to deny something.

Yes, you're right. I'm oversimplifying a complex issues, and I apologize for misreading and misstating those poster's comments.

[fauxkaren]

lol. Doctor/River is the worst.

[(Anonymous)]

...did you actually read the secret?

[fauxkaren]

... yes?

[kaleidoscope]

I honest to god thought this was a Star Trek secret. Due to the image, River looks like the Orion green lady.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't love them as much as I did back in series 5 but I still ship it because I like fucked up relationships. Love her as much as I ever have, despite the character assassination.

[(Anonymous)]

Huh. I thought I was the only one who was really, really bothered by The Wedding of River Song (I'm a new fan, just got into the show and haven't ventured out into fandom much). I mean, the entire concept of River, who barely knew the Doctor at that point, being willing to sacrifice the entire universe because she couldn't live without the Doctor? She actually says at one point that she'd suffer more if she had to kill him than if the entire rest of the universe ceased to exist. . I just had to roll my eyes at that. I don't love her and I don't really ship her and the Doctor, but I don't really hate them, either. I'm just sort of meh on River. It seems like Moffat really loves her and like the viewer is supposed to, too, but I really just don't.

Also, on the broken wrist thing. Yes the Doctor was acting like a child and what River said about hiding her own weakness from him was problematic, but I think in that moment the issue was that the Doctor had asked her to find a way not to break her wrist. So that you could prove that time could be rewritten, even if it had already been written down. When she failed to do so, she wasn't just hiding the fact that she was injured or mortal. She was hiding the fact that she couldn't change time. And the Doctor was upset about that because he realized that meant he would lose Amy and Rory. So, for whatever that's worth.

[(Anonymous)]

Re: the wrist. Yeah, that's true, although one of my other complaints is that it just kinda came off as condescending because the guy has lost way too much and dealt with way too much horrible shit to need to be protected from hard truths like he's some fragile flower who can't deal with it or something. Her long-suffering attitude just bugged me.

Also, hi there new fan! I love seeing new fans :) Hope the nutzoid fandom doesn't turn you off -- it's like the little girl who had a little curl. How d'you like this silly crazy wonderful show so far?

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, there's a lot about River's attitude in general and in that scene particularly that rubbed me the wrong way.

And thanks for the welcome! Well, I mainlined the entire seven seasons of New Who so far, so yes I loved them! I got really attached to Nine and then Ten, so it took me a while to warm up to Eleven, but I love all the Doctors I've seen so far. I haven't really gotten into Classic Who yet, mostly because the 26 seasons thing is sort of daunting and I wouldn't know where to begin. But I love what I've seen so far! The show is campy as anything but I love that it really makes you care and is also just a lot of fun.

I haven't gotten too involved in the fandom yet. It seems like most of the LJ comms are pretty quiet these days. I've found a few blogs to follow on Tumblr, but that's been about it. I haven't gotten too scared off by anyone yet, so that's good!

[fenm]

but I think in that moment the issue was that the Doctor had asked her to find a way not to break her wrist.

And if the line had been, "Under the circumstances, I didn't want him to know," you'd have a point. But that's not what she said. She said NEVER let him see the damage. That means never, under any circumstances; not just the one we're in right now. You have to stay young and uninjured for him. And that is FUCKED UP.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I'm certainly not agreeing with River's statement or supporting the attitude behind them in any way. It seemed like upthread people were saying that River was solely hiding her injury because she thought just that the injury would upset the Doctor. But it was more than that. He'd asked to try to change time, and she wasn't able to do it.

I'm not really sure where the aggressive tone of your comment is coming from; disagreeing strongly with what River said? Well, that's fine I suppose. I don't really agree with it either, I was just pointing something out that seemed to be overlooked.