[ SECRET POST #2356 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2356 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 134 secrets from Secret Submission Post #336.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Nothing wrong with wanting the bitchers to get out of the pool. If you don't like a show, or find it "problematic" then you should go create your own community to bitch in. Not try and take over pre-existing comms. Because shoving into a fan-comm and pissing all over other people's fun is just another form of bullying.

[(Anonymous)]

Why? Generally people who want to talk abou those things like the fandom, they just like it in spite of the problems they see. And if it is a general community about the fandom, discussing the problems is just as legitimate a discussion as discussing the things people enjoy is.

[(Anonymous)]

Because most fans come onto fan sites to discuss what makes them feel good, not bad. Is it so hard to move to a separate forum if you want to down-talk it? It is just common politeness. No one is saying you cannot trash talk something, just do it where it won't make people who came to talk about how they enjoyed it feel bad about their fandom. It is no harder than taking trigger material or spoiler material to separate forums to avoid upsetting people.

[(Anonymous)]

And some fans like to do both. Fans who like only positive discussions aren't more legitimate than any other fan, and fans are entitled to post whatever discussions they want. If you disagree with the poster's thoughts, you can say so or just ignore the discussion. That doesn't mean they don't have the right to post it.

And I don't think triggering or spoiler material should be taken to different forums either. They should just be marked so people who want to avoid them can do so.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, I see, you enjoy being a dick because not being one is too hard?

[(Anonymous)]

Uh, no, discussing problematic part of shows does not equal being a dick.

[(Anonymous)]

Discussing it with like minds is fine, preaching at other people who are just trying to enjoy their fandom is being a dick.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, preaching is being a dick. Starting discussions in general fandom communities is not. Those are not necessarily the same thing.

[(Anonymous)]

They are if you are down talking something. Talk about how you enjoyed it in the main forums, and go to a "problematic" specific forum if you want to down talk it. Otherwise you are making people who wanted to be happy and enjoy it miserable. Making people miserable because you want to share your issue is being a dick.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't know about them, but you clearly do.

[(Anonymous)]

Like how if women are bothered by rape jokes, they should hang around places where men might make them. Men like to make rape jokes, if women don't like it when rape jokes are told then they can just ignore them.

[(Anonymous)]

I can't tell if you are being serious. Are you really comparing the existence of rape jokes to discussions of problematic content in general fandom forums?

[(Anonymous)]

Same principle at play.

[(Anonymous)]

Except that rape jokes are not okay and there is nothing wrong with starting discussions?

Let me just say, I do have a problem with the people who insist their interpretation of what is wrong with a fandom is the only way to look at things or that everyone has to talk about the problematic things in a fandom. That is not necessarily the same thing as just wanting to talk about those things, though. In a general fandom community, any discussion is game.

[(Anonymous)]

All men like to make rape jokes and there is no chance a woman would find it funny.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm a woman and I find some rape jokes hysterical. /shrug

[harp]

Like how if women are bothered by rape jokes, they should hang around places where men might make them. Men like to make rape jokes, if women don't like it when rape jokes are told then they can just ignore them.

We can cut through a lot of the nastiness here if we quit it with the group divisions for two seconds. Check it out- "Like how if someone is bothered by violent jokes..."

We're not going to move forward if we don't quit scattering all of these "you people" seeds.

[otakugal15]

This. I've run into that problem on tumblr in one of main fandoms at the moment. If I discuss or point out major problematic elements about this one character that your character is expected to LOVE, I'm "polluting the tag with hate."

I get mean about the character sometimes, sure, but I mostly write about how these interactions tend to contradict what he says in others. Otherwise, I'm very positive about the game and the stories, despite problems. but people are pissy that I'm not loving their little woobie, who tends be downright sexist most of the time.

Then again, I'm one of those people who believes that if you're talking about a fandom, character, what have you, you tag it as such. even if it's "hate."

The whole "don't tag your hate," for me, only applies to people who literally hate a character by being racist, homophobic, sexist, what you in their reasoning. Valid points do not, to me, equal hate and therefore have as much right to be tagged as the positive stuff. and if they get tired of seeing it, either ignore me or scroll on past.

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly. Go create their own SJ forum for the show and leave the rest of us alone.

[harp]

Actually, I wish they'd just go create. Yes I know that there's no pleasing all the people all the time, but I'm thinking specifically of an LJ friend of mine who literally delights in walking down the DVD aisles and picking up every DVD to point out how "racist/sexist/ableist" it is.

I just want to say to them "Hey... it doesn't take much to criticize and whine. If absolutely nothing pleases you, if you're so full of indignation, if you're going to cry BAW they aren't representing X! and then when they do write X, cry BAW they represent X RONG! then how about you write/kickstart/encourage/look for/try to create something that does fit your standards? 'Cause all I'm seeing right now is someone who calls everything ____ist, and it makes me think that you believe you are the only one who is capable of producing something that isn't ___ist!"

(Then the really mean thought comes up "of course you won't. You don't want to do something, you don't want change, you don't want to help, you just want to complain and never risk your seat as the True Moral Authority by daring to make something someone might possibly call out as ____ist.")

[(Anonymous)]

This. But that would take EFFORT on their part. It's much easier to just bitch about something.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree...sort of. People really should at least think about how hard it is to create - but at the same time? The media really is horrible with how it represents some minority groups.

For example, there are a lot of times it seriously seems like they go 'Hmm, we need someone to be the killer. I know! Let's make it someone with -insert whatever page they happened to land on in the DSM-!' Well over halve the time when they do write a mental illness they write the symptoms amazingly off - which in turn means that people are going to start assuming the wrong things about it. That's something worth criticizing [imo], even though I don't write characters mental illnesses.

So...I think there is a time and place where they might very well have a point, but it does get a bit much when they do it with every damn movie.

*Admittedly, I'm biased since I actually have a mental illness that has received this treatment more than once, and yeah. I've been hit with the 'Well on X they said...' crap as well.

tl;dr: I agree they sound like they'er going over the top, but I think there's a time and a place where criticizing that is needed, even if the critic doesn't 'create'.

[aubry]

IA. Though I'll add, in my experience, the most gloriously joyful fannish spaces are the ones where a high level of critical awareness and creative enthusiasm come together and explode in clever fanwork.

I've never stood by the idea that there's an obligation on fen to go and create something original instead - whether that line's coming from inside or outside fandom. But creating fanfic and fanart and vids an manips and RPs to actively explore media that's being sold to them as a finished product? Fuck yeah, fandom!

[(Anonymous)]

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[(Anonymous)]

So, basically what you're saying is that critical thinking about anything and everything is bad whether it's SJ related or not, and everyone who disagrees with you and doesn't want to mindlessly heap love on something needs to be separated from everyone else.

That's pretty low man, even coming from a troll. Like, Youtube comments low.