[ SECRET POST #2356 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2356 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 134 secrets from Secret Submission Post #336.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Nothing wrong with that. The only problem is when people who don't like to talk about those things try to silence those who do. There isn't anything wrong with not wanting to talk about social issues in fandom, but there also isn't anything wrong with wanting to.

[(Anonymous)]

I'd like to add an "and vice versa," to the silencing, as I do remember the days when you were judged for just wanting your sparkly little fandom and for NOT taking part in social justice discussions. Hopefully, tho, fandom is getting back to more of an even keel now.

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed, the bullying from sj-ers if you dare to actually enjoy something they are hating over is vicious.

[(Anonymous)]

Or even if they're acting like they can live and let live, god forbid you express your enjoyment without having disclaimer clauses in half your sentences. If you don't add something like "I understand that [cite current popular SJ critique], but..." before your carefree squee, god help you. You're presumed to be racist or whichever accusatory label fits the context.

[(Anonymous)]

Unfortunately, 99 times out of 100, the SJWs themselves are the ones who are the worst "ists" (racist, ableist, etc.) than the often innocent people they're calling out.

And no I won't show you my oppression olympics bingo card that gives me carte blanche to say that.

[(Anonymous)]

In my experience, it feels like people are pretty chill about things these days, and things like that mostly get messy when BNF's inject their pairing elitism into the mix.

What's funny is when those same people stare doe-eyed into the fourth wall and gasp about how ~they just can't understand why people keep prefacing their enjoyment of [problematic kink/pairing/whatever], it's so hurtful to everyone else to act like it's a bad thing to like what they like!

[(Anonymous)]

Nothing wrong with wanting the bitchers to get out of the pool. If you don't like a show, or find it "problematic" then you should go create your own community to bitch in. Not try and take over pre-existing comms. Because shoving into a fan-comm and pissing all over other people's fun is just another form of bullying.

[(Anonymous)]

Why? Generally people who want to talk abou those things like the fandom, they just like it in spite of the problems they see. And if it is a general community about the fandom, discussing the problems is just as legitimate a discussion as discussing the things people enjoy is.

[(Anonymous)]

Because most fans come onto fan sites to discuss what makes them feel good, not bad. Is it so hard to move to a separate forum if you want to down-talk it? It is just common politeness. No one is saying you cannot trash talk something, just do it where it won't make people who came to talk about how they enjoyed it feel bad about their fandom. It is no harder than taking trigger material or spoiler material to separate forums to avoid upsetting people.

[(Anonymous)]

And some fans like to do both. Fans who like only positive discussions aren't more legitimate than any other fan, and fans are entitled to post whatever discussions they want. If you disagree with the poster's thoughts, you can say so or just ignore the discussion. That doesn't mean they don't have the right to post it.

And I don't think triggering or spoiler material should be taken to different forums either. They should just be marked so people who want to avoid them can do so.

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly. Go create their own SJ forum for the show and leave the rest of us alone.

[harp]

Actually, I wish they'd just go create. Yes I know that there's no pleasing all the people all the time, but I'm thinking specifically of an LJ friend of mine who literally delights in walking down the DVD aisles and picking up every DVD to point out how "racist/sexist/ableist" it is.

I just want to say to them "Hey... it doesn't take much to criticize and whine. If absolutely nothing pleases you, if you're so full of indignation, if you're going to cry BAW they aren't representing X! and then when they do write X, cry BAW they represent X RONG! then how about you write/kickstart/encourage/look for/try to create something that does fit your standards? 'Cause all I'm seeing right now is someone who calls everything ____ist, and it makes me think that you believe you are the only one who is capable of producing something that isn't ___ist!"

(Then the really mean thought comes up "of course you won't. You don't want to do something, you don't want change, you don't want to help, you just want to complain and never risk your seat as the True Moral Authority by daring to make something someone might possibly call out as ____ist.")

[(Anonymous)]

This. But that would take EFFORT on their part. It's much easier to just bitch about something.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree...sort of. People really should at least think about how hard it is to create - but at the same time? The media really is horrible with how it represents some minority groups.

For example, there are a lot of times it seriously seems like they go 'Hmm, we need someone to be the killer. I know! Let's make it someone with -insert whatever page they happened to land on in the DSM-!' Well over halve the time when they do write a mental illness they write the symptoms amazingly off - which in turn means that people are going to start assuming the wrong things about it. That's something worth criticizing [imo], even though I don't write characters mental illnesses.

So...I think there is a time and place where they might very well have a point, but it does get a bit much when they do it with every damn movie.

*Admittedly, I'm biased since I actually have a mental illness that has received this treatment more than once, and yeah. I've been hit with the 'Well on X they said...' crap as well.

tl;dr: I agree they sound like they'er going over the top, but I think there's a time and a place where criticizing that is needed, even if the critic doesn't 'create'.

[aubry]

IA. Though I'll add, in my experience, the most gloriously joyful fannish spaces are the ones where a high level of critical awareness and creative enthusiasm come together and explode in clever fanwork.

I've never stood by the idea that there's an obligation on fen to go and create something original instead - whether that line's coming from inside or outside fandom. But creating fanfic and fanart and vids an manips and RPs to actively explore media that's being sold to them as a finished product? Fuck yeah, fandom!

[(Anonymous)]

applause.gif

[(Anonymous)]

So, basically what you're saying is that critical thinking about anything and everything is bad whether it's SJ related or not, and everyone who disagrees with you and doesn't want to mindlessly heap love on something needs to be separated from everyone else.

That's pretty low man, even coming from a troll. Like, Youtube comments low.

[(Anonymous)]

so people who don't want to talk about them should just leave?

why can't the people who DO want to talk about it leaving?

[(Anonymous)]

Because in general, they were there first.

[(Anonymous)]

Neither part of fandom should have to leave. They just need to recognize that other people get different things from fandom and are interested in different types of discussion, and that's okay. Don't be a dick to someone who wants to discuss social issues, and don't be a dick to the people who don't want to discuss those issues. It's really not that hard.

[(Anonymous)]

IA, don't discuss SJW issues in a general comm, keep it for the SJW comm. And if you go into the SJW comm, don't expect positive discussions on the show. Simplez.

[(Anonymous)]

Er, what? Why? SJ discussions are not by and large entirely negative. That's a caricature.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I don't think I was clear in the wording of my comment, but I actually don't think that SJ issues should be relegated to separate communities. Unless a community is specifically set up just for squee, there's no reason why people shouldn't be able to discuss things that they don't like there. If you're a fan who doesn't want to read that kind of stuff, then skip over it. Unless someone is being a dick and replying to people who are enthusiastic/happy about a certain thing to tell them all the reasons they're wrong (or vice versa), then there's no reason the two types of discussion can't co-exist in general fandom spaces. The idea that general fandom spaces should only be for squee can be alienating to those fans who enjoy discussing the things that they like and dislike about a canon with other fans.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree (with what I think you are saying, not with what the above commenter said). People get different things from fandom and want to discuss different things. Both of those are okay, and it is okay to discuss all those things. The point is not to be nasty to people who want to discuss different things or disagree with you. If you don't want to talk about what they do, just avoid their topic.

[(Anonymous)]

And to talk about them in the relevant section so that you don't annoy each other by being positive in an SJW comm or SJWing in a non-negative general fangroup. You have to decide is your comment about the show, or about how you want people to react to the show. If it is the latter, take it to the SJW circle-jerk.