[ SECRET POST #2364 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2364 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 098 secrets from Secret Submission Post #337.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

15. http://i.imgur.com/J8u2LDq.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

I like genderswapping, but I often feel like people don't explore it deeply enough in their fan stuff. Often I see characters just being exactly like their original selves. Unless the society they live in has 100% gender equality, I definitely think being born and growing up socialized as the opposite gender would change a lot of things about you, but these things are never adequately dealt with.

[(Anonymous)]

I can't speak for everyone, but I love to genderswap characters just for the sake of having female characters that don't have to deal with misogyny for once.
I like to pretend that they are respected for what they do while being female. Sometimes I just envision the genderswap world to be completely swapped in itself and women are seen as the better gender. It's nothing but compensating in my case.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

[kaijinscendre]

Meh. I don't really care for them (I don't hate them). If I am looking at fanart it is generally because I want to see the hot guys I like. Maybe I should stop looking at so much porny fanart.

Also, I hate how in genderswaps the character is literally just the same character but a different gender. That is now how the world works. You think in SPN John Winchester would have treated female!Dean or female!Sam the same way?

[thursdaymoose]

Yeah I see the "exact same" argument come up a lot, and I think it's really important to take the culture's fashion and pressures into context.

On a basic design level, I see quite a few male -> female swaps give the girl very short hair, with the argument that the original version keeps his hair short. For me, though, it's not necessarily that the character likes short hair, it's that they often have a rather nondescript hairstyle for their presentation.

So a born-female version of that character wouldn't necessarily have short hair, just something that doesn't stand out much.

To continue with your example, most SPN swaps seem to give Sam the same hair that Jared has now, but I think it's more interesting to give Sam hair that, in one way or another, is a little unusual or remarkable for a woman.

[intrigueing]

That is now how the world works. You think in SPN John Winchester would have treated female!Dean or female!Sam the same way?

Well this is kind of interesting, because I gotta completely 100% disagree with you on that. Because yes, I DO think John Winchester would - or at least could - treat his daughters that way. Would his behavior be way, way, way more unusual than treating his sons that way? Oh hell yes, but that's exactly WHY I like genderswap. It is so fucking refreshing and such powerful wish-fulfillment to see female characters acting in ways that are ~reserved for men because no woman would EVER act like this~ Even if the treatment is bad, anything that breaks those rules is fascinating and interesting to me and makes me want to see/read it.

I haven't seen much Supernatural, but I do know enough to know that I would KILL to see a show where John Winchester treated his daughters the way he treated his sons, because that so very, very, very rarely happens IRL OR in fiction. And I love, love, love it when fictional characters act towards each other in unusual and un-stereotypical/unconventional ways, specially wrt to gender. It would be unique, and different, and so so so so so so so fucking liberating to see female characters treated like male characters. Just for the sake of breaking that stupid stupid stupid STUPID idea that just because it would be very, very, very unusual for someone to treat their daughters that way, that means it would and should never happen.

Because women can what? Never be treated in an unusual manner? Not once? We can't say "damn, female!Dean and Sam's father's treatment of his daughters was very much not the norm"? Why the fuck not? The fact that genderswapping would give me the opportunity to read about a father treating his daughters in a way so completely unstereotypical of how female characters and women in general are normally treated is the precise reason I want to see it. If he treated them totally differently because they were girls...well, that could be really interesting too in the hands of a good author, but it's not what I personally crave.

Wow....uh....that was quite a rant. No hard feelings or anything, of course! Just that I really wanted to express how I feel about that idea you voiced. It's perfectly fine if it's not your thing, I understand that perfectly and I hope I didn't come across as confrontational, but it is exactly my thing and I think my reasons for it being my thing are just as valid.

[(Anonymous)]

When done right, then yes I agree!
Sadly I see lots of "gender"swapping that is just all about having more big-booged girls in skimpy outfits and nothing else. The now-female protagonist becomes the fucktoy and the now-male supporting character gets to fuck her *eyeroll*

[transcriptanon]

[The picture is the cast from Doctor Who genderswapped standing around the TARDIS. The secret maker wrote on the picture: "art by Wilkoak, used with permission".]

I don't understand the complaint that genderswaps are "pointless." The very act of genderswapping IS what makes it have a point. It makes readers see gender in a way no explanation could compare to.

Notes

[transcriptanon]

Genderswap: turning a character into the opposite gender in fanfiction, fanart, etc. It can be via a magical accident/curse/science, etc., or it might be an alternate universe where the character was born as the opposite gender they were in canon.

[dragonimp]

Honestly a lot of the genderswap I've seen is pointless. It's not exploring gender dynamics or gender roles or how society might view the character differently, it's just lol look X character BUT WITH BOOBS. And in some cases it's swapped to turn the slash into het. I love well-done genderswap that actually does look at the above, but I haven't found much of it.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, very much this.

[(Anonymous)]

It's pure opinion and preference, of course, but I prefer genderswap that is just like that. Could be because the one time I saw fix that went about exploring the consequences of a character being a different gender, it turned horrifyingly essentialist and really OOC.

[(Anonymous)]

It depends on the canon, as far as I'm concerned. For DW, for instance, I think it could be fun - after all the Doctor's an alien, there's been a lot of discussion recently (and before) about him becoming female, etc. Plus even with the companions, I don't really think of them as being hugely defined by their gender.
But my major fandoms are medievally-fantasy and I find it way harder to imagine genderswapping. If it's just one character, or a few, okay, fine, maybe, that's interesting (but still hard to pull.) But genderswapping the entire cast just...eh?

[(Anonymous)]

But my major fandoms are medievally-fantasy and I find it way harder to imagine genderswapping.

I have the same issue. In my main fandom, my favorite character is a ruling monarch, but his dynasty practices agnatic primogeniture. I still like to entertain scenarios where this character is born a woman and through circumstances still somehow ends up on the throne, but the story would become very different from canon.

[(Anonymous)]

But my major fandoms are medievally-fantasy and I find it way harder to imagine genderswapping.

Weird, this is the exact kind of scenario where I WOULD love gender swapping. Modern ones...eh, not that big a difference. But a medieval fantasy world that's a lot like the stuff we read about in books, but where all the men and women's roles are flipped? Characters that fit certain tropes, but of the opposite gender from how they're usually portrayed? Female knights fighting for the favor of gorgeous passive guys? Daughters avenging their mothers' deaths? Epic female friendships? And would it be just the members of the main cast? Or would it be a whole parallel universe with a matriarchal society? That would be SO fascinating!

Like, if it's the former, how does society at large treat these unusual characters? Why are these particular characters so unusual, and what about their circumstances and background allowed them to get away with being so unusual? And if it's the latter, how did a matriarchal society like that come about? What details regarding biological differences would essentially have to be different for such a society to make sense? So many possibilities!

[(Anonymous)]

I actually have the opposite experience with genderswapping than fellow commenters. The ones I've read didn't keep the characters the same (nor did they explore much in the way of how gender affected how you are treated, etc.). They simply got the character and dumped a heavy load of stereotypes about being a woman and stripped them of their original personalities. So I not only saw no point in them but also felt offended and stayed clear of them. I get my share of stereotypes about women everywhere else, thanks.

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe this is kinda unrelated but I don't like when people give genderswaps of Ten a skirt. Not for any real reason. I just think the outfit looks dumb that way.

[(Anonymous)]

That is a fucking awesome picture. I love that artist's depiction of male!Rose so much. Because that's so exactly how he would look.

Also, male!Rose/fem!Nine would be even awesomer than female!Rose/male!Nine, because it would have the added benefit of not having anything cliched about it.

[intrigueing]

THAT PICTURE <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

Good Genderswapping fanfics?

[(Anonymous)]

Anyone have any well thought out recommendations? I'd love to read them :D

yes!

[(Anonymous)]

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8615605/1/The-Never-ending-Road

best female Harry Potter ever

this one is a good second place, though:

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7793520/1/Girl-in-the-War

[(Anonymous)]

That's why I actually prefer roleswapping to genderswapping. I read, for example, a BBT fic where Penny was the genius scientist and Sheldon the average-intelligence new neighbor...or like in today's first secret, the character that would normally have been male, that role instead taken by a woman.

for straight-up genderswap though that Supernatural fanfilm wins all the awards.

[(Anonymous)]

i haven't stumbled upon many roleswaps, but yeah they are cool as ice

[dancing_serpent]

*shrug* Tried a couple, and then a couple more, but it just doesn't do anything for me. By now I simply skip them.