fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2390 ]

[ SECRET POST #2390 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2390 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

[Karl Urban]

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02.

[Legend of Zelda]

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03.

[Pride and Prejudice]

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04.

[Shingeki no Kyojin]

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05.

[Les dossiers du Bell]

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

06. [SPOILERS for 'Injustice: Gods Among Us'; 'Man of Steel']

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07. [SPOILERS for Welcome to Night Vale]

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08. [SPOILERS for Young Justice]

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09. [SPOILERS for Merlin]

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10. [SPOILERS for Supernatural]

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11. [SPOILERS for Umineko no Naku Koro ni]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

12. [WARNING for incest]

[Felica & Ryon Day, "Co-Optitude"]

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13. [WARNING for incest]

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14. [WARNING for suicide]

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15. [WARNING for abuse]

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Notes:

Sorry for late again, work's a bit busy this week.

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #341.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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I wish I hadn't read the responses. I feel sick to my stomach by how loosely people are throwing around things like "JUST a couple" and "not a family." Yes, childfree people make up a family, both legally and in personal practice. Belittling such families or using "just" in front of couple is degrading and sickening.

Uh, I understand saying your family is not a family offends you, but you do know there are plenty of couples who don't consider themselves to be a family and would not like to be called that, right? So people can't know what couples want to be called beforehand.

You know that nobody is trying to imply that all couples are automatically families, right? Stop playing devil's advocate here - you're just being an ass. Nobody here is going to call a dating couple a family unless said couple considers themselves to be a family - we're arguing that couples who consider themselves to be a family should be able to call themselves a family.

Keep calling yourself a couple and going on your merry way. Me? I'd like my household to be considered a family and not just two people and a cat.

Okay, but why? What is so special about being called a family that you need to be called that?

What's so special that you're so against people using it however they please?

AYRT

I'm not against people using it however they please. But I am against the idea that it's a necessary label.

So then let people use it as they please. That's what makes something optional, yes?

AYRT

My point is that people should question the label and why it has value.

Everyone is so attached to the idea of being a part of a family that they don't stop to question why they want to be part of one. And those who do come to the conclusion that "society gives it importance," and this somehow validates the attachment. Why? Why?

Why is the goal to be part of something that separates rather than to get rid of the thing that separates?

Really. You know for a fact that NO ONE has ever thought about it. You're the ONLY one that has reached that level of enlightenment. Okay.

AYRT

No. That is not what I've meant. At all.

I'm just gonna ask you outright. Are you looking to be offended; are you looking to crusade; or are you looking to have a discussion?

I'm looking to have a discussion. If you're not, then let's each of us be on our merry.

Really? We don't question why we want to be a part of a family? What about the security it gives you? Or the fact that you know that family will always be there for you? Or because family is one of the "highest" forms of attachments we have in the world?

The word in itself isn't important per se, but the fact that "close groups of people, related or not" is important and the word we use to explain that is family makes the fact that people saying someone can't be family* is like saying that you can't care that much about that person because you aren't what I personally consider good enough or you don't fit the mould.

And we are human beings we are and have always been pack animals, we want to have a group of people around us that we can depend on, evolutionary that was for survival and now it is a part of us. How many people and to what degree is different from person to person, but the fact that no man is an island is quite true.

So no the word family is not important, but that is the word we use to call the most important group of people in our lives, and because of that it is important to recognise people whom want to be family as family, be it a couple or a single parent or a family with 8 children, it does not matter they are what they choose to call themselves, what matters is that you recognise the fact that they are family.

*Because of whatever reason

AYRT

So no the word family is not important, but that is the word we use to call the most important group of people in our lives, and because of that it is important to recognise people whom want to be family as family, be it a couple or a single parent or a family with 8 children, it does not matter they are what they choose to call themselves, what matters is that you recognise the fact that they are family.

This is a really good point, and it has made me think that it might not really be the word that bothers me; rather, it's the definition of the word, and what that definition means to society at large.

"Family" has baggage. Its tied to notions of kinship that don't necessarily translate into a modern context. For instance, why can't my closest friends be my family? Why do blood ties have to exist? Blood does not guarantee connection, and in some cases, it shouldn't.

We should be able to tie ourselves to whom we wish, without it having to mean anything to others.

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

making_excuses - 2013-07-20 02:07 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

(Anonymous) - 2013-07-20 02:27 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

cbrachyrhynchos - 2013-07-20 02:29 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

(Anonymous) - 2013-07-20 02:44 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

making_excuses - 2013-07-20 02:40 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

(Anonymous) - 2013-07-20 02:56 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

cbrachyrhynchos - 2013-07-20 02:16 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

(Anonymous) - 2013-07-20 02:27 (UTC) - Expand

Because my family is, for lack of better words, my history, my culture, and my religion. They are also an important set of moral ties as well.

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

(Anonymous) - 2013-07-20 02:30 (UTC) - Expand

Because it's nice to have the option. To you it may be just a word or a label - doesn't mean that that's the case for everyone.

AYRT

Yes, it is nice to have the option. But I think that it's worth questioning why it's so socially important that someone should be considered part of a family.

It shouldn't matter whether you're part of a family or not. Being part of a family should be no more important than not being part of one.

Being part of a family should be no more important than not being part of one.

Absolutely, but that's not my point.

AYRT

Okay. So just to make sure that I've gotten it: is it your point that the amount of importance placed upon the label is up to the individual?

Yes

Re: Does a couple without kids count as "a family"?

(Anonymous) - 2013-07-20 01:58 (UTC) - Expand

You have always had a "normal" family I assume?

Some us don't get the luxury of an as we call in Norway A4* family, and maybe we want one? Or maybe we want to call the people in our lives that we love our family without being judged? Or maybe I don't know, having the people you consider most important in your life your family is nice and feels secure?

Would you also say that a gay couple shouldn't make a big deal out of being recognised as a couple*? Which extends to also being recognised as family with or without kids? Or what about adopted siblings? Are they okay to afford the luxury of being considered real siblings?

As an add on, family is the people whom get to visit you (and get information if you are not able to receive it yourself) if you are in the hospital so yeah being considered family is important.

*Normal family
*Which is a bit more important than a couple being recognised as family, but it is related.

Uh, actually I do think any couple that considers themselves a family is one and that's just great. I was just pointing out that someone not calling your family the right name for you isn't necessarily being deliberately offensive - they might just not know, and how would they? People aren't psychic. Really not sure how you got so offended by my reply.

Usually I call them, "Tom and Harry," or just, "my good friends."

Child-free people can make up a family. That doesn't mean that a couple necessarily makes up a family or that a couple is the same thing as a family (for one thing, because a family can in my mind include people who aren't in a couple).

It's not that one is more or less than the other, it's just that they are two different things which sometimes overlap but don't always overlap. They're different words for different things.

I agree with you that putting "just" in front of a qualifier is potentially, and in some cases explicitly, belittling.

I do not, however, agree with you that "not a family" is belittling.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with not being the member of a family. The problem is not the distinction; it's the undue weight given to the term.

"Separate but equal" doesn't work - human nature won't let it. We will always give different judgements to different groups, especially when the lines of these groups are based on arbitrary rules.

You're still making a distinction between "family" and "not family," and as long as there is that distinction, people will always give more weight to one than the other. If there's nothing wrong with being "not family," then there should be nothing wrong with being "family," either.

Look at you. You're so determined to keep people out of your exclusive club that you're patronizing everyone you're not letting in. "It's not that we think less of you, it's that you're thinking less of yourselves!"

Fuck you. My partner and I are a family and you can go suck a fucking pinecone if you disagree.

AYRT

Look at you. You're so determined to keep people out of your exclusive club that you're patronizing everyone you're not letting in. "It's not that we think less of you, it's that you're thinking less of yourselves!"

...no.

I DO NOT think that. And not only is it disingenuous, but it's actually offensive that you've made that assumption.

You know what the truth is? I can't stand the people who are supposed to be my "family," and I am a member of a childless couple who has three cats. I am not the member of some special club that is denying you access. I am someone who thinks that the term "family" shouldn't mean anywhere near as much as it does.

It's true that, as humans, we divide one another into categories. But the fact that we do so does not mean that we must, or should, accord them "separate but equal" status. And if it is the default of humanity to do so, then we should fight against it honestly rather than buy into labels that perpetuate it.

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