[ SECRET POST #2471 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2471 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 034 secrets from Secret Submission Post #353.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not in the fandom, and don't care.

but

I'm gay, and I fucking hate the double standard fandom has for gay pairings. Like, straight has the be the default, and seeing "gay pairings" is delusional crazy yaoi fangirl. If Castiel was a woman, would the pairing still be delusional? Would it still be stupid to ship?

I know it's society's fault for still not allowing gay relationships to be a distinct possibility for almost any character, but seriously, people in fandom often suck. maybe in the future we can look at chemistry without shoving characters into 100% straight boxes.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, you're also dealing with a significant portion of the fandom who reeeeeallly want the two brothers to be the two guys who are fucking, and the resulting snark and jealousy that emanates therefrom.

[(Anonymous)]

because they have to be rival shippers,amirite? can't just have a different opinion. gimme a break.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't hold your breath. You're right, though.

[fingalsanteater]

Stole the words outta my brain.

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

Double standard? Fandom seems more often than not to default to slash! Fandom is great at not shoving people into straight boxes. It's the rest of "normal" society that does that.

If Castiel had been a woman she wouldn't have survived the original 6 episodes she was slated for. She would be dead with no resurrections. That's just the show SPN is.

And what the other commenter said is very true - the other big ship of the SPN fandom is Wincest aka Sam/Dean incest.

You're either very butthurt at society's hetrocentrism and are blaming Fandom, or you're a troll.

[(Anonymous)]

They default to slash on the net. I'll bet most of them don't want to see it on the screen, though.

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

Most of the slashers I've seen would be happy to have it onscreen and would think that any who don't are strange and potentially homophobic.

My reason for not wanting Destiel canon is not because I don't want it onscreen, it's because I don't trust the writers to write it well.

[(Anonymous)]

It's the slash fangirls that have gotten every single female character that wasn't a lesbian canned.

[(Anonymous)]

Nope, I am not a troll - that is such a stupid accusation, by the way, what the fuck - and yes, I am mad about homophobia and heterocentrism. It kind of affects my life.

Yes, there are slash fans, but there are also a huge number of anti-slash fans (see above) who dismiss the possibility of gay relationships or feelings in shows. Maybe it's a small thing, but saying, for example, "There is NO WAY that Dean and Castiel could ever have romantic feelings toward each other and anyone who interprets them that way is a delusional batshit fangirl" is a problem to me. It's making characters straight by default and refusing to let them experience any fluidity whatsoever in their sexuality. It's one thing if you don't like it, or don't see it, but throwing it away without even considering it - especially when, apparently, the creators deliberately throw in "moments" (so I've gathered from this thread, I don't watch it).

No, I don't watch the show and can't comment on the validity of any pairing. But when I see comments like "they're wasting their time, it's never going to happen" I wonder why it has to be that it's never going to happen, or why we should assume that a gay pairing is just a kink or something and not a legitimate reading of the story.

Yes, I want to live in a society that recognizes that people who have straight relationships could still have a gay relationship, that "straight" people might be bi or incidentally bi, and I would like media and its fans to reflect that. Call me a troll for this ~crazy talk~ and denying that many fandoms are as progressive about sexuality as you think.

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

Well I tend to agree with you on practically all of that.

I'd like to see more representation, and representation that doesn't pigeon-hole gay people into stupid tropy roles (if you've seen my other comments on why I don't want Destiel in particular to be canon, you'll know that's my reason why).

One of the things I dislike about the attitude of refusing to acknowledge subtext in something is that if the subtext is so blatant people accuse it of being queer-baiting, there really has to be something there.

Even when the subtext fans see is not as obvious, denying it is denying the interpretations of other people and saying they are not allowed to think for themselves.

The only reason why I personally have opinions that run close to "It's never going to happen" is because I look at the track record of the show and believe that it has a pattern that precludes a gay relationship between lead characters. Track a show's trend and you will see how it will keep carrying on.

And as for how progressive fandoms may be, I may just see the happy slasher side of many of the fandoms I get into. I don't go out of my way to get involved in ship wars or fights between slashers and anti-slashers since it tends to leave a bitter taste in mouth (especially due to past personal experience that way).

(P.S. I'm straight, I'm a slasher, I'm generally in support of representation. I'm also rather a cynic too.)

[diet_poison]

For one, I kiiinda feel like you're preaching to the choir here.

For two, I think (though I also don't watch the show) that the reason people think it won't happen has to do with their gauging the likelihood of the writers wanting/being willing to write it, not their personal beliefs on whether it should/could happen. I think many if not all would agree with you that there is something problematic about het pairing + subtext = endgame, slash pairing + subtext = queerbaiting being the current norm in media like this.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

I think it's also often the case that het pairing + subtext = writers jerking the audience around for as long as possible. I don't respect that either, because the result is usually storylines that only work if you assume that all of the characters are dumber than a box of rocks.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

It's not the 1980s anymore. If you want to make gay characters a couple, fucking do it already without the wink-wink-nudge-nudge camp sprinkled on to feed ship and tinhat drama. Shit or get off the pot, in or out, because my reading list is already backed up until well into the next year with people who don't play those games.

[(Anonymous)]

dean has already been established as straight tho

i mean i see your point

but really

he's straight

and cas is whatever the fuck he is

the end

[fingalsanteater]

Dude, no.

[(Anonymous)]

Dude yes, just accept the fact that it will NEVER be canon. And Dean IS straight, pushing any sexuality you want onto him is horrible and if you were a fan of him as a character, you'dat lleast respect that.

[fingalsanteater]

Lmao. Pushing a sexuality onto a fictional character. Come on. Like it hurts anyone if I decide to interpret some of the subtext as Dean being bisexual. Just because Dean coming out as bi likely won't be canon, doesn't mean it hurts his character to interpret his sexuality as anything but straight.

[(Anonymous)]

Whatever happened to "sexuality is fluid"? Isn't that the pc fangirl motto?

[(Anonymous)]

Are you... trying to imply that sexuality is not fluid and it's stupid to say it is? Because sexuality is fluid. Not citing SJWs. Citing, you know, psychology. Science.

[(Anonymous)]

In general. Sexuality is fluid in general. People are free to explore and re-evaluate and relabel their sexualities all they want, and if that evaluation leads to them looking at the stock of things, nodding, and saying, "Yup, still straight," that's okay.

Dean has had moments where he connected emotionally with other men, and the idea has probably popped into his head a time or two, what with all the gay jokes he's heard and said. And he's still just really into women.

[(Anonymous)]

I think the point is that even if Dean has a lot of sex with women, that doesn't mean he's 100% straight or couldn't ever have sex with a guy.

happens enough in real life. I know this from personal experience. :-/

[(Anonymous)]

I do agree with you. BUT some people genuinely don't see Cas/Dean as anything more than just friends. (Hell, I barely even see them as friends. I think they're both awful to each other and will never understand the ship). And I can't help but wonder if Destiel shippers would see the subtext if Castiel was a woman. Probably not. Sometimes people only see slash pairings because both characters are male and friendly/close to each other. Nevermind whether or not there's actual subtext.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm queer, too, and I want you to shut up because you don't know what you're talking about.

The ones who are delusional are the ones who scream that it's canon and anyone who doesn't ship it is WRONG!!!!!! That's what's delusional, FFS.

[(Anonymous)]

You think fandom doesn't look at chemistry? Imagined or other wise.

LOL