[ SECRET POST #2483 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2483 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 054 secrets from Secret Submission Post #355.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Why do people hate allies so much?

[(Anonymous)]

I don't get this disdain for people who show any support for a cause that's not related to them. I don't even care if they make it about them. All I care about is that they're one more person out there slowly changing the equation. Even just holding that opinion helps change things bit by bit. Yeah, I kinda want to roll my eyes at people who think they're basically heroes for supporting LGBT rights but they're not that common in my experience, and I'm not about to be an asshole to them for taking pride in being a decent human being. Truth is, most of the world isn't even at their level so yeah, decent to me is worthy of praise.

I also find it really fucking rich when the very same people who barely acknowledge (or even discriminate against) bisexuals and/or trans* people bitch about how allies are taking their space.

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[(Anonymous)]

Most of the people I've seen hating on allies and complaining about them are kids or teenagers. Seems to me to be an immature reaction of "you're not one of us" type of mentality.

But my experience is limited.

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[dreemyweird]

short answer: because people are idiots

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[(Anonymous)]

Only crazy radicals on Tumblr say this. The majority of sane people do not. Just back away from those crazy radicals. You can't reason with them. You can try, but they'll just scream rape and dox you.

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[(Anonymous)]

I think for some people, who are part of a minority group, they may have had some bad experiences with allies (eg. when it's made all about the ally, and not about the cause). Have enough bad experiences over time, and you start to get grumpy and skeptical of people calling themselves allies.

The situation is probably made more difficult by the fact that neither "side" will ever understand one another - I mean, sure, on an intellectual and emotional level, but someone who is white is never going to 100% experience what it's like to be black, and vice versa. Or straight and LGBTQ, male and female, etc.

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[(Anonymous)]

Today I saw a post that I really hope was meant to be satire that basically said 'find out if ally knows their place below us or is trying to find a spotlight, and if the latter, bully or physically batter them into submission'. Even thinking it might be meant satirically doesn't make me feel much better, because that is actually what people are doing (maybe bar the physical violence part) and it's incredibly fucked up.

Besides which, even if you do absolutely everything that makes a 'good' ally in their eyes, they'll still scream you down for wanting 'cookies' or whatever bullshit. I just don't engage and try to keep my head down.

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[(Anonymous)]

Oh wow.....

That's terrible. I mean I know Tumblr SJWs were toxic but that is some grade-A messed up shit.

I wish people like that could see where they're headed and realize that they're slowly becoming just as bad as people they hate.

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[insanenoodlyguy]

Nothing slow about it. Some of them are there. They just have less chance to exercise that hate in reality is all. Which is a good thing honestly.

[(Anonymous)]

I hate when they say "oh poor you you're being hated on the internet when everyone loves you in the 'real world'." and think they can't do damage.

1.) Their methods of "calling out" people or "picking on them" are extreme, usually including things like death threats, telling people to commit suicide and doxing. All three of those are serious things. (also despite what SJWs think...no they aren't "justified" in doxing someone, because that someone made a rude remark online. If anything it puts the SJW on the same level.)

2.) LOL assuming that everyone MUST love you in the "real world". because everyone who disagrees MUST be a white, cis straight male. Yep, sure, totally.

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[saku]

a lot of straight/cis allies that ~come to the rescue end up making it about their own feelings than those of people who are actually being hurt and oppressed by homophobic and transphobic behaviour/actions. there's a difference between using your privilege and institutional power to make a difference and using it to boast about how important you are to the lgbt community because if it wasn't for your support they'd be suffering even more, etc. and the more you analyse ally behaviour the more it becomes evident that a striking amount of them feel this way, whether they realise/acknowledge it or not.

there's support. there's acceptance. and then there's the instance of using these to talk about lgbt issues from your own perspective, as if anybody cares about the first time you met a trans* person or that your uncle is gay, etc. it shows less a concern for us as people and more a concern for yourself, using us as a commodity.

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[(Anonymous)]

I don't actually see a lot of people doing this though. I see a lot of people trotting out this excuse all the damn time though.

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[saku]

perhaps because the people you see complaining about it are paying more attention??

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[(Anonymous)]

"there's support. there's acceptance. and then there's the instance of using these to talk about lgbt issues from your own perspective, as if anybody cares about the first time you met a trans* person or that your uncle is gay, etc."

So, "sit down and shut up" is what you're saying basically. Have fun trying to be an accepted member of society while simultaneously isolating yourself from the very people you need on your side.

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[saku]

it's worked out fine for me so far. if people are comfortable with our existence then we can do the rest on our own. we don't need allies to do that for us. if telling you to know your place in our own struggle makes you lose support for us then you were never a real "ally" to begin with. idk y'all always get so mad about this issue, it's not your issue. lgbt have every reason to be wary of you and to want nothing from you except your acceptance.

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[(Anonymous)]

I get what you're saying, but... we're not a community, a tradition, or a way of life. We are just a bunch of random people that maybe have one thing in common: our alternative sexuality.

Honestly, if an ally votes in support of LGBT rights and is proud of his/her LGBT support, and even volunteers time, effort and money to help spread awareness... I honestly don't give a shit if they like to talk a lot. Who cares? I need allies for equality. The world needs people to be passionate and help out for causes that don't even actually affect them personally. That's awesome. Good for allies. I find SJWs more annoying when they talk about "their" cause being appropriated or taken over by stupid straight allies. I'm like, you're the kind of person we don't need championing our rights. They're the kind of people that are alienating others, and I want nothing to do with them.

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[saku]

we are a community tho? unless you're using some other definition, but the lgbt community is called a community for a reason. and even if we weren't i'm not sure what that has to do with my point, could you explain?

some lgbt folks are like you; they don't care what comes out of an ally's mouth as long as they give resources to the community. i get that line of thinking but i personally would rather an "ally" keep their time and money and "support" if they were only going to use the outcome to lift themselves up. in the end, if an "ally's" intentions are not to benefit the lgbt community and the lgbt community alone, if their opinions are not in favour of lgbt rights, then they are no better than the individual who outright objects to lgbt rights. i can't even count the amount of times i've heard an "ally" spew some transphobic binary-normative bullshit without considering the fact that lgbt issues extend beyond gay marriage. i call them fake allies bc they have no idea what they're talking about more often than not. real allies are fine as long as they understand their purpose is not to carry us when we are capable of walking on our own. but not everybody who claims to be an ally is a real ally, and that's where the whole "i hate straight allies" thing comes in. people who say that don't usually mean all allies everywhere, just the ones that are hurting them, or not care about them, etc.

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[(Anonymous)]

I can understand it to a degree. Recently I had a conversation with a guy who is in a LGBTA+Allies club at his school (being an allie) and he made such a big issue out of being in danger of being beaten up.
He really said it with such a gleeful voice, wow. Yes, it feels good to be on the "right", but don't act like you deserve a medal for supporting basic human rights.

Others use it as a defense, making the fucking point of adding "but not all guys/all hetero/all cis people/not EVERYONE is like that everytime a systematical opression gets pointed out. "look at me. look at my singular experience. Let's discuss how my anecdotes support or disagree with your global statistics", diverting from the problem.

Some people are self-righteous like that, but those people should be pointed out individually (and not in a hateful fashion).

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[(Anonymous)]

if we're doing examples....

just recently, I was taking a class on Indigenous issues, and an Indigenous speaker came down from the country to give a presentation. anyway, after she finished, she said that she was a bit offended by the way most of the class were on their phones texting/facebooking while she was speaking.
and this one girl pipes up with "well, i'm personally offended that you think I can't pay attention while on my phone."

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[(Anonymous)]

Wow....rude.

/this from someone who was on her phone a lot when she had a smartphone, but actually made a damn effort to stay off it in class when people were presenting something dammit.

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[lynx]

^This

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[lynx]

Ok, let's not talk about Tumblr-activism because we all know that may raise (more) awareness on some issues, may even be educative, but it hardly:

- Attracts anyone not interested in the issue in the first place.
- Does jackshit for the World Outside The Internet.

Let's talk about IRL-activism.

Allies in IRL instances are a sticky issue, and it doesn't even have to be about the LGTB. As an example, we had a couple of months ago a walk against the despenalization of abortion; and we had a lot of men coming to support the cause with us.

This is ok.

Some of them voiced their opinions and life experiences around the issue in the FB-event page.

This is also ok.

Some of them were trying to push their opinion forefront while invalidating the opinions or life-experiences of actual women who had abortions; and acting all high-and-mighty because LOOK AT ME I'M A MANNNNN BUT I CARE ABOUT THIS ISSUE YOU SHOULD BE SO V. V. GRATEFUL WE'RE INTERESTED AT ALL.

This is NOT ok, and made a lot of women who had been through the dangers of illegal abortions really upset, a lot of women who had unwanted pregnancies and couldn't abort (and now were dealing with the consequences) very angry, and the rest of us were in between uncomfortable as fuck (like myself) or "It's ok they behave this way, they've come to help!1 Doesn't matter they're being shitty, we need the numbers". It ended up in a lot of fighting and threads closing due to the wank.

Is the analogy clear enough? ^^;; It's like, if "mansplaining" is a thing, "straightspaining" should also be a thing.

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[(Anonymous)]

That actually clears up the "line" very well, and makes a lot of sense. What you're saying is true. Support the cause, yeah, talk about experiences, sure, make yourself a martyr , hell no.

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[lynx]

*splaining (sorry for the typo)

I'm glad I could make my point clear ^^ It's like, I'm happy to have your support, and I can even understand people opposed to the cause feel "safer" if an ally does activism instead of someone in the LGBT spectre. Depressing, but true, and can even work as a good punch towards the statu quo if worded ok, like IDK: "You don't need to be LGBT to understand [insert issue here] is an important issue, and that society needs to change and [propose solutions to issue here]".

It's the "make yourself a martyr" part what make us uncomfortable, or even angy depending on the sense of entitlement of the so-called-ally.

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[(Anonymous)]

"It's ok they behave this way, they've come to help!1 Doesn't matter they're being shitty, we need the numbers".

I think there is probably some differing in opinion in what is "shitty" - I find SJW-types (sorry to throw out that term, but it applies) jump on things that I personally do not consider shitty at all. I find a lot of exaggerations on their part, and assuming of intentions, or just looking at the worst in people.

As a gay person, I'm not going to hate someone who leads their school's gay-straight alliance because they are straight. I'll say good for them. If they "demanded cookies", sure, I'd judge, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone do that, despite what tumblr would have you believe. Interrupting and speaking over gay people? Maybe, if the topic was about personal gay experiences or something.

I do think there is such a thing as too sensitive.

but yeah it'd depend on the actual situation. all in all, anti-ally shit in any -ism is stupid.

Re: Why do people hate allies so much?

[lynx]

You're entitled to your opinion and experiences.

I'm a lesbian, and I'm specifically talking about not-Tumblr spaces (and IRL spaces) in which I've encountered the problem, in person. It's not like I don't know what I'm talking about. Yes, it has happened in groups I've participted, and yes: straight people can be selfish, loud, and entitled about LGBT issues; to the point it's not a "maybe we're being too sensitive", it's a "these people are being a royal pain".

So I'm entitled to my opinion and experiences as well.

I don't share the hate allies get, but I wouldn't say it's "stupid".