fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2512 ]

[ SECRET POST #2512 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2512 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 062 secrets from Secret Submission Post #359.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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You leave the island, you die.

Obviously I need to stream this movie.

Do they kill you if you just stand around not killing anybody? Otherwise I can't see the point of kicking off a murderfest over hoping the people watching you eventually get bored. You could build an ideal society in the interim. Or, like, have an orgy. Train everyone up to a 10K. Practice a dance routine.

Unless you can guarantee that no one's going to kill anyone else, you can't stand around not killing anybody, because you don't know that someone else isn't going to come try and kill you. And they're probably going to do it, because they're terrified that you're trying to kill them.

See: Thomas Hobbes

(in the original novel, IIRC, there is actually a group of girls who hide out somewhere and try to just make it through without killing anyone, but it all goes horribly wrong)

I assume that if we agree we're not going to kill each other and wait it out, but also agree that we'll gang up on and kill anyone who tries anything, that will make them think twice.

I don't generally assume everyone goes Lord of the Flies three seconds after leaving civilization.

Hm. That's interesting. Some form of contract. But what if people made secret agreements? Tried to form smaller factions, maybe do a sneak attack, win things for themselves? I mean, you can't guarantee that they won't. And that means that you still have to be paranoid all the time. And how do you make decisions as a group? How are you going to stop someone from using violence if they don't like the group's decision making process? Won't that just lead to a total breakdwon of order?

Perhaps it would work better if you all just agreed to let one person decide, and give him or her all the power, so that if anyone does try anything, he or she can just go and take care of things. Keep order no matter what. I mean, it can't be worse than living with the constant threat of someone trying to kill you.

(in case it's not obvious I'm basically just making dumb Hobbes jokes at this point; I think the real difficulty with your plan is the practical one that everyone is dispersed and it would be hard to get them to all come together to make an agreement without them thinking that you're going to kill them)

Yeah I figured ;p These types of stories tend to take a dim view of humanity, but in reality, there are just as many "and the survivors helped each other selflessly" stories as there are "and then they turned on and ate each other like rats" ordeals.

I didn't know we'd be dispersed. Are we never together at all after getting the collars/being told the rules, then?

The rules in the book are that you get released from the starting area at staggered intervals. So, yeah, you pretty much enter the playing field alone with no knowledge of what anyone else is doing out there.

I do agree that there's just as many stories about the one as the other, and personally I don't think human nature is either evil or good (but at the same time, re: Hobbes specifically, his argument is not really that human beings are intrinsically evil, or at least doesn't rely on it).

Ahhh I was less than clear, but for the latter stories I meant "accounts". In RL, you have desperate survival situations where people really did turn on one another (or at least one of them turned on the rest and had a clear advantage over the others, like a gun - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipperton_Island) but others, like the famous plane crash in the Andes, where everyone got along and helped one another to the best of their abilities.

Huh well that makes things more difficult, but I'd imagine there'd be a looooot of people just hiding. Or, like me, trying to find a cave or low place with overhead rock cover to block whatever radio or cellular signal they're using on the collars.

Re: That's not how Battle Royale works

ill_omened - 2013-11-19 02:19 (UTC) - Expand

Re: That's not how Battle Royale works

ariakas - 2013-11-19 02:32 (UTC) - Expand

Re: That's not how Battle Royale works

(Anonymous) - 2013-11-19 02:47 (UTC) - Expand

Re: That's not how Battle Royale works

ariakas - 2013-11-19 02:51 (UTC) - Expand

Thomas Hobbes was a 17th century English Protestant, so he sure as hell did think that human nature is intrinsically fallen and evil. That premise would be so basic to any argument that he made that he probably wouldn't even have bothered to state it explicitly.

In Battle Royale they have bombs strapped to everybody. If there's no kills in x amount of time they will set off everybody's.

So what you're saying is, damaging the seals (assuming there are any) and dunking your head underwater to destroy the receiver/transmitter through which they set the bombs off is exactly what you should do.

But what if doing so also sets the bombs off?

How? They've set the bombs up to be triggered by salt water somehow? How did they accomplish this? What do you use to trigger a bomb with salt water - either electrically or with a spark - that won't also be destroyed by said water with the seals broken? Remember, anything you could possibly use to trigger it remotely is now destroyed. What do you use to "detect water submersion" and how does it trigger without electricity or heat? Moreover, how do you differentiate between participants actively trying to destroy their collars and participants who accidentally got their heads wet while fighting?

I fully buy that a bunch of high school kids wouldn't come up with this, but we're adults here, many of us college-educated and some of us scientists and engineers. It's obviously going to play out differently, and we'll have different solutions available to us.

Re: Won't work

(Anonymous) - 2013-11-19 03:07 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Won't work

ariakas - 2013-11-19 03:14 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Won't work

(Anonymous) - 2013-11-19 03:23 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Won't work

ariakas - 2013-11-19 03:27 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Won't work

(Anonymous) - 2013-11-19 03:35 (UTC) - Expand

The collar is made with Stainless Titanium which is can resist to impact, oxydation and water. Also, the collar is protected with plastic sealeant so is protecting the microphone, GPS locator, alarm system and the explosive detonator from water and shock. The detection system is using satellite control system, so the collar can be controlled from long distance at the operation base. The microphone is a military spy model which is can recorded everything up for 60 hours. With the time-alarm beeping system, it can indicated the carrier if he is almost out of the map, danger zones and explosive detonation time.

(From the wiki)

The island is also surrounded by military ships. On the off chance you somehow figure out the collar, they are there to shoot anybody trying to leave the island, and, if necessary, shell it to oblivion.

Edited 2013-11-19 03:31 (UTC)

So, damage the plastic sealant, like I said?

With all that shit inside it, salt water would destroy it pretty much instantly.

The military ships pose more of a problem once you get the collar off, but a) they're manned by people, people who could well be there "because it's a job" or "because orders" with no real desire or intention to kill innocent people and thus who could be swayed to "accidentally" let you pass, b) if there are caves on the island - as Japanese troops so adequately proved for months in the South Pacific - you can take cover from any potential shelling. And that was aerial bombardment, too, not the limited angle of attack you'd have from a ship. They would literally have to wait you out, or go ashore to try to find armed, murderous, furious people with a strong will to live, which they have no idea where they are (because the collars are destroyed) - which again, the Japanese proved was a deadly proposition, even in the face of overwhelming odds. If you picked off even a couple and acquired their weapons, it could turn into a bloodbath. You'd already know the ins and outs of the island, and how to hide on it, much much better than they would. Guerrilla warfare has beaten many a superior force in terms of numbers and arms. When you get the chance, raid a ship at night, seize it, and go. In international waters put out a distress call re: piracy to the nearest navy. They'll show up armed to the teeth.

Hopefully, though, during the weeks or months you're sitting in cover while they shell the island, the people watching this on Google Earth mention it to the UN/NATO/other governmental bodies with an interest in human rights abuses and somebody shows up to save the day.

Edited 2013-11-19 03:44 (UTC)

Re: Won't work

blunderbuss - 2013-11-19 06:51 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Won't work

ariakas - 2013-11-19 06:59 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Won't work

insanenoodlyguy - 2013-11-19 12:47 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Won't work

otakugal15 - 2013-11-19 22:54 (UTC) - Expand

Did that not make it into the movie? I've been meaning to watch it ever since I read the novel back in high school but I still haven't gotten around to it.

I'm in the same situation, actually! So yeah, I don't know the answer.

I should really watch the movie at some point.

Limited food, limited water, limited time, you're going to die anyway unless you're the last one standing

How can they limit your food if you're on an island? Especially since I presume this is around Japan? There's tons of sea life, shellfish on the beach, etc. Similarly, de-salination and rain collection will make good on the water shortage.

How do you think people survive on desert islands?

Question: have you read or watched the series?

For example, in the movie, people have 3 days until everyone gets killed by way of the collars around their necks exploding, so it's either one survivor or no one.

Hahahah nope. All I know is that it's a bunch of schoolkids killing each other on an island because Japan.

Wait, so who supposedly put these collars on us? In Japan, there's probably some commentary about obedience - or lack thereof - to authority but here, wouldn't people just riot or hide before that ever happened? And if the collars go off if you leave the island, they have to be remotely triggered - i.e. by a cellular or radio signal. Just go into a cave or anything with rock cover and smash it.

Kids are told it's a field trip, gassed to sleep on a bus, then collared. They wake up on the island

Well as I'm 31-years-old, I have no idea why I'd be on a field trip, so I think I'm safe ;p

They're sleeping gas'd on a field trip. It's definitely a commentary about obedience and authority, but also how about how harsh and dehumanizing Japanese society can be, I think (especially the educational system) (I'm probably phrasing that in a shitty way but I hope you know what I mean)

Re: That's not how Battle Royale works

ariakas - 2013-11-19 01:50 (UTC) - Expand

They use these electrical shocks collars on the 'participants' to make sure they... participate

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