[ SECRET POST #2555 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2555 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Attack on Titan/Shingeki No Kyojin]


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03.
[The Muppet Movie]


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04.
[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen]


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05.
[Frozen]


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06.
[Once Upon a Time]


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07.
[Dissonance]


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08.
[Zooey Deschanel]


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09.
[My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic]


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10.
[Eona: The Last Dragoneye]














Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 038 secrets from Secret Submission Post #364.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[(Anonymous)]

On the plus side, now I want to see what a feminist thread with an actual discussion would be like.

Can the term "feminist" be reclaimed and polished back to something that doesn't mean "man-hating"?

Or is it outdated and needs to be replaced entirely to reflect the new ideology of equality of these days?

The other day my bro was all like "no, feminists have done so much harm, blah blah, I'm anti-feminist" and I was all like "okay, but why are you bringing this up during our Christmas celebrations".

So! Thoughts?

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[(Anonymous)]

Now THIS is how to start a discussion!

(Radfem anon, start taking notes.)

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[(Anonymous)]

I remember Lady Gaga said she couldn't be a Feminist because she loved men too much, or something to that effect. I'm pretty glad I never found any of her work that interesting.

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[insanenoodlyguy]

I think it's accurate though. I rather like Gaga's work, but some of the content of her songs and the way she acts doesn't really line up with what many consider good feminist practice.

I think the issue was muddied a bit by her embracing the gblt population in her fandom. I don't think she's anti-feminist either mind, but she would make a rather inadequate feminist icon.

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[(Anonymous)]

She basically said you had to hate men to be a feminist, which is so far from reality that it's offensive.

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[(Anonymous)]

She retracted that in a later statement in which she said her understanding of the meaning of feminism had been misinformed. She probably only had an informed opinion after hearing criticism of her for spreading the myth that feminism is about not hating men. It's a very widespread myth, so I don't blame anyone for not knowing better as long as they're willing to be educated about it when it comes up.

SA

[(Anonymous)]

"myth that feminism is about not hating men"

Fixed myself. Not sure how that "not" got in there.

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's outdated. The term, not the ideals. The issue with feminist is that while it preaches equality for all, it only specifies fem- in its label, which turns off a whole lot of people. If the interest of a new generation of people who weren't around for the start of it and don't have the education about it is what we're trying to obtain, a new label might work better.

I suppose the question is, what's more important, our pride in the label or the possibility of something else being more effective in practice of reaching new people?

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[(Anonymous)]

To me, the problem isn't that feminism specifies fem- in its label; the problem is that a lot of people have gotten the idea that if you're a feminist, that's all you are. That it's exclusive. That's the problem. It's one component of a worldview, not a worldview in itself.

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[darkmanifest]

I think it's telling that despite every masculine term in the English language that women are forced to fall under alongside men - including the term "woman" in and of itself - it's only when a term is feminine that suddenly we need to worry about changing labels. Like, there is a very prevalent dislike and fear of prioritizing women in any group or ideology that always needs to be addressed, and I feel like using "feminism" addresses that from the gate, so it still serves a purpose.

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[(Anonymous)]

It's not about prioritizing women, it's about an ideology that says equality for all, prioritizing anything

Equality = nobody gets priority over anyone else

It's like if we called an ideology that said equality for all races and called it hispanicism, then dismissed anyone saying the term hispanicism is not really representative of the ideology because hispanic people never get prioritized elsewhere, so it serves are purpose so it's fine. I don't think everyone else would be too happy with that

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[darkmanifest]

Equality is the goal of the ideology, but the actual work that goes into feminism can't operate as if the playing field is already equal between the sexes, therefore equal attention can be paid to both, when the whole point of its existence is that that isn't true. It's kind of like...putting the cart before the horse when the destination hasn't been reached, it halts progress by causing people to act like equality has already been achieved and stabilized and any further discussion is purely academic. Which a lot of people do, in fact, act like whenever feminism is brought up. I doubt renaming it to "equalism" or something will help with that.

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[caecilia]

I will keep calling myself a feminist and let people judge me based on my actions. If someone is too ignorant to know that feminism has different branches, or feels threatened by the term, they're not someone I want to associate with.

I hope you really did respond to your bro with that, and that it shut him up hilariously.

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[(Anonymous)]

This, oh so much. It's how I feel whenever someone says the term feminism or how feminism itself is outdated.

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[(Anonymous)]

If someone is too ignorant to know that feminism has different branches, or feels threatened by the term, they're not someone I want to associate with.
That's great for you, but that certainly doesn't work for me because I have co-workers and family and friends of friends and friends of family. And honestly it seems more important to me to engage with those people (about feminism if they're ignorant about it) than shut myself away, which is what I would have to do (either literally or at least mentally).

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[caecilia]

Sorry. Honestly I have people like that in my life too. I try to be just polite to them, if we end up becoming closer and friendly, and they're open to a discussion, I can try to change their minds in little ways, and I've had some successes. If they're not open to discussion, that's when I disengage a much as possible. I don't know. Some people are a lost cause imo. I still don't think, if you feel the label of feminist is right for you, that you should give it up for their sake.

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I sat this one out, tbh.

I'm not good at debate and it seemed like he just needed to rant and be listened to for a while (we hadn't seen each other for months).

Besides, even though he can be weirdly stubborn about some things, he is the kind of person who is willing to change his mind if you give him the time to investigate and think about things on his own. He is a very intellectually minded person and does try to seek out new ways of thinking, it's just that arguing (in particular, arguing with his family) makes him dig in his heels deeper.

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[caecilia]

Aww. Tbh I'm dealing with that right now, kind of. It's not related to feminism but I've been keeping my mouth shut about things around my family when perhaps I should have spoken up.

I think a lot of people are like that. They don't like to be told they're wrong, and they won't listen to anything else you say if they feel you were attacking them. You catch more flies with honey!

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[lynx]

Super busy now, but + 1. I couldn't have worded it better.

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[caecilia]

♥ I'm glad, because I feel like I'm rambling tipsily.

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[cakemage]

Same here.

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[(Anonymous)]

I would love to see feminist reclaimed! I am a feminist but I never say that because it means "man hater" to the people I know IRL and that is not what I am. I don't use a label at this point, I just say I want equality because that's exactly it. I want equality for women as well as other oppressed people/groups. I don't even know if there's a term for that, but I think of myself as a humanist because that's who care about: humans. All of us.

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[caecilia]

Humanism is a thing! I'm that, too.

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[darkmanifest]

I don't know how much I believe the term "feminist" needs reclaiming. It never meant or even implied "man-hating", nor was it usurped by man-haters, unless there was a period in time I'm unaware of where gangs of feminists roamed the streets assaulting and killing boys and men as part of their matriarchal ideology of misandry and completely misrepresented the cause of feminism to the masses. Sure, there's a popular stereotype of it that doesn't hold up to the slightest bit of research, but you can apply that to any mainstream term.

And "feminists have done so much harm"? Really? Because every time someone says something like this and I ask for examples, they usually wax poetic about how feminism has destabilized social structures and traditions that were, in actuality, often fucked up to begin with and could only thrive so long as no one questioned them or expected better.

tl;dr: Your bro makes me angryface.

Re: Can feminism be reclaimed or is it time to change?

[(Anonymous)]

I find that many self-identified feminists are rather disingenuous when it comes to defining what feminism is. They start by saying that if you believe in fundamental rights like women being able to vote and own their own property; equal pay for equal work; hiring people on the basis of ability rather than gender; etcetera, then you simply must be a feminist, and that to be non-feminist one must be against basic human rights. However, as soon as somebody starts to identify as a feminist based on this fairly loose definition, but doesn’t fall in line with other ideological points then they’re told that to be a feminist they can’t just simply be in favour of gender equality when it comes to fundamental rights... they also have to find certain media trends/representations problematic; be anti beauty industry; be anti slut-shaming; be politically anti-racist, anti-homophobia & anti-ableist; be anti cultural appropriation; believe in certain conceptualisations of ‘patriarchy’ and ‘rape culture’, disapprove of gendered insults, etcetera.

Now, if it was just a case of one faction having one working definition of feminism and another faction having a different one, I could understand it. My problem is that time and time again I see the same people offer up the first definition as bait and then hold anyone who bites to the latter I understand they find their beliefs the most moral beliefs and think that people should share them, but you can disapprove of somebody's beliefs without being misleading and inconsistent about what your own movement stands for.

While I could probably be defined as a feminist in the dictionary definition sense, I don’t identify as one. I’ve found that in the UK, or at least the part of it where I live, those who have similar views to me don’t tend identify as feminists, while those who do tend to have a fairly different worldview. The fact is that I don’t have to adopt the label to be pro choice, pro gay marriage, and against people being denied employment because of their race. I can take a stance on particular issues without signing up to a whole manifesto of positions that I may or may not agree with.