[ SECRET POST #2667 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2667 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 041 secrets from Secret Submission Post #381.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

09. http://i.imgur.com/wGv0g96.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

If anything I'm much more likely to interpret really masculine characters as gay.

[(Anonymous)]

... and I'm most likely to interpret male characters who have sex with other males as gay.

[(Anonymous)]

In japan, Street Fighter's Zangief was meant to be gay as hell.

In America the "Russia Makes you Strong" troupe was interepreted instead. But there's signs.

http://images.phxxgaming.com/images/128326119028_sfz3-end-zangief.gif

[feotakahari]

I've seen the same thing with characters being interpreted as trans. (At least I've never been in a fandom where trans headcanons are common--I hear in the Attack on Titan fandom you can get called a bigot for NOT insisting that a particular character has to be trans.)

[inthecorner]

Yeah, I was going to mention that. I always see feminine guys interpreted as trans (in circles where trans headcanons are common), and if someone designs a trans character they're usually pretty feminine, whether FtM or MtF.

[fleshisyummy]

Yeah, to be honest, I was really annoyed with Nanaba being headcanoned as trans just because she's masculine in appearance. It always just comes off as, "Masculine women aren't REAL women." :/

EDIT: when I say trans, I mean nonbinary, btw.

[kaijinscendre]

This is a fairly common occurence. Just like how people will say the more masculine guy is the 'top' and feminine guy is the 'bottom'.

[castle_anon]

I have to admit, when it comes to Castle, fic and the two guys in my icon, I'm far more interested in reading about closeted gay Kevin (the smaller, prettier, more feminine white guy) pining for somebody, so maybe you've got me there. But when it comes to headcanon for the show and things that I could actually see justification for if it ever went that way (not that I think it would), it's the exact opposite.

I find that kind of strange, and I'm not sure why I'm not more interested in Esposito fic.

[insanenoodlyguy]

Oh it's there allright.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know, I think fandom is pretty happy to slash every guy, regardless of whether they're "feminine" or "masculine". Personally, I like to headcanon all characters (male and female) as bi so I can ship them all over the place. :D

[(Anonymous)]

/looks at my fandoms

/blinks

Um. Steve Rogers. Tony Stark. Jayne Cobb. Mal Reynolds.

I'm pretty sure that fandom at large will scan any man as gay if he's hot enough.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm just going to say it: I think that bad habits like this one, and the no-black-characters-in-smut-ever thing, and all the related issues, come DIRECTLY out of the pressure to declare yourself NOT sexist, NOT racist, NOT homophobic, etc.

Because you are. Everyone is. We absorb racial and gender stereotypes from everything we're exposed to, starting at birth. There is NOBODY who does not have their culturally-conditioned version of this programming. Nobody, period, especially you.

So if you think that you escape that by just saying you're not prejudiced, and following a simple speech code, you're the equivalent of a dry drunk. You still have all the subconscious programming, you still have all the same stereotypes, you're just telling yourself you don't. And they'll come out every time, in little things like thinking "Oh, that guy's less macho, I bet he's gay" or "I just don't think the black guy's attractive, I think his white best friend has way more chemistry with the random villain who was in one episode" or whatever.

Stopping falling into these stupid, embarrassing habits starts with acknowledging that you ARE sexist. You ARE racist. You DO have a bunch of stereotypes and preconceived notions about people based on gender, sexuality, culture, and a ton of other things. Once you acknowledge the programming in yourself, you can see it, you can work with it, you can start to unlearn it.

When you're thinking some character is probably gay because he's thin, neat, and polite, you're acting on a stereotype. If you know you have that stereotype, you can stop and go "Wait... why do I think that?" If you tell yourself you're pure as the driven social justice, then you have no way of checking yourself, and we get another addition to the pile of oh-so-progressive fics and headcanons that bluntly reinforce every stupid, regressive stereotype you ever heard of.

[(Anonymous)]

you got me curious about your fandoms, op. anime?

when i think of all of the huge slash western fandoms and their big pairings, they all involve pretty masculine dudes. i think the least "masculine" big slash ship is sherlock/watson.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm trying to think of characters I interpreted as genuinely and exclusively gay instead of the usual bi so I can cheerfully ship them with all and sundry. Off the top of my head, the only one I can think of is James Watson from Sanctuary, though he's slightly complicated in that he's implied to have had a canon relationship with Helen, and I tend to interpret the Five as a century-long polyamorous network marriage (this is the only show I do this for, but seriously, Helen has had canon relationships with three of them, Nikola flirts with all of them, and James and John had the most tragic love short of Eric/Charles). I don't think that has much to do with his relative masculinity, though, and more to do with the fact that most of his attention genuinely seems to be focused on men, and him and John had the most tragic and violently intense betrayed love/friendship/thing. So, you know.

Generally I'm going by who has chemistry with who, I think? I've slashed Nick Fury and Dwalin (not together)(probably)(go to sleep, self, wtf) with various people. It's hard to get more stereotypically masculine than those two.

Mind you, I'm not sure I'm normal in either the shipping stakes or the accurate-interpretation-of-masculinity stakes, so I'm probably not the best person to ask.

[harp]

I ran into this on FictionAlly Park. A couple of people in a "Harry/Ron vs Ron/Draco vs Harry/Draco" thread were saying stuff about how Ron Weasley was unslashable because he was "too boyish".

[(Anonymous)]

On the flip side, "feminine" guys could possibly be straight. I think there's this idea that gender and sexuality are the same thing, so people generally look for those gender identifiers for indications of sexual preference, when it really doesn't have much to do with anything.

Although, in fiction, you're more likely to have characters abide by the misconception that gender and sexuality are inextricably linked because it makes it easy for the author.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't understand how people use the term "headcanons" for anymore. Does it mean the person doing the "headcanons" think it's really canon (there's just no explicit stating of it) or is it just something they make up in their heads that they think would be cool in fanon?

I thought it was the latter but apparently not.

[(Anonymous)]

Well in my fandom it appears that absolutely everybody is fanonically gay. Even characters who are masculine as fuck, have canonically declared themselves to be straight on multiple occasions, and have had relations exclusively with women. I kind of envy you, OP.

[(Anonymous)]

I only interpret guys I think are hot as gay.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think I've seen much backlash for this, honestly. Now, if you headcanon more feminine guys as strictly bottoms in anal sex? Heads will roll.

(On the other hand, headcanoning masculine guys as bottoms gets a lot of "ew gross" comments with stereotype justifications. There's no winning in slash fandoms.)

[beverlykatz]

I've noticed the same trend. It's awful, especially since fandom culture as a whole prides itself in being super "open-minded". Enough people in real life already believe that feminine guys are gay and masculine guys aren't; why do we have to perpetuate those ideas? :(

Related pet peeve: when the "smaller" or "more feminine" half of gay ships is automatically super submissive, frail, and incapable of doing anything without his big strong man. No. A thousand nos. (Some parts of Hannibal fandom does this to Will and it breaks my heart. WHERE IS MY SARCASTIC RUDE ASSHOLE? WHO IS THIS DELICATE FLOWER WHO CRIES AT THE DROP OF A HAT?)

Really? Because in my fandoms EVERYBODY seems to be gay in someone's headcanon.

[(Anonymous)]

The feminine men, the masculine men, the men that aren't really either, the feminine women, the masculine women, the women that aren't really either, the aliens, the monsters, the demons, the robot/AIs, the cars. Seriously, anyone or anything, even when you wouldn't think there would be a gender delineation.

[(Anonymous)]

Are you into slash at all? Slash writers will pair up any male character with any male character, no matter what canon or physical characteristics or characterization says.

[ariakas]

If it makes you feel any better, pretty much every man in my fandoms scores an 11/10 on the masculinity scale and the slashers still have nooooooo problem making them gay.