fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2686 ]

[ SECRET POST #2686 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2686 ⌋

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I got one, can't believe it is controversial, but experience told me so:

I don't think it is okay to use any kind of violence* against children, there is no excuse to actually hit your kid when they do something wrong. If you can't get them to respect you without the threat of violence you are the problem, not the child.

*And yes spanking is violence, if it is against the law to do it to an adult it sure as hell should be so too when it comes to children.

I really hate that this is a controversial opinion. There are places in the world where spanking has been banned for some time, and they haven't descended into anarchy. In fact, they tend to be some of the nicer countries to live.

So do I, and I grew up in one of those countries. So it is even odder for me having to actually argue with people that it is wrong to hit children, because as a rule everyone I meet in RL are against it.

Some might be okay with slapping a child hand if it tries to touch candles and such, but even that isn't universally accepted.

Yeah, but it is generally in countries that have a much broader approach to social wellbeing and welfare. Proper social safety nets and healthcare, affordable housing, well funded educational sectors, a justice system that focuses on rehabilitation and correction instead of vengeance and punishment. You can't just change one thing, you've got to have the whole package including higher taxes for the wealthy.

100%.

Well yes, but my point is that you can easily disprove the idea that kids who are not spanked turn into reprobate criminals by looking at places that have banned it. If merely Not Spanking causes problems, then everything else that you've mentioned shouldn't matter. The fact that countries that have banned spanking have solved social problems through other means demonstrates that spanking is not necessary.

I tried to argue this with my mother once. She kept insisting that if a child won't listen, spanking is the only way to get them to stop doing something, and by the end of the conversation, I felt like I was going to throw up.

Have she ever heard about sending the kid to his or her room? Or just taking away stuff the child likes? There are like a thousand things you can do to punish a child without hitting it...

Can offer myself as proof against her argument.

I grew up 100% without spanking or hitting of any kind, and somehow never walked into traffic or stuck my head in a fire. Just lucky, I guess.

I think part of the problem is that a lot of people read that and what they see is, "Your parent, who spanked you occasionally, was a bad parent and maybe even a bad person".

Which is irrational and unfortunate but such is the way of things.

It's only irrational if you don't reason thus: X is bad -> doing X makes a person a bad person -> your parents did X, therefore your parents are bad people. Especially when you get one of those people who becomes really angry if you tell them that you didn't suffer any ill effects from the occasional smack on the bottom, and insist that this study proves you must have some kind of mental trauma.

Which might make some of the discussions and comments understandable, but people arguing for spanking their own children in the future do not have that excuse... Because that is plainly saying when I have a kid "I will hit it because I was when I was a kid and I turned out okay."

I am sure there are a lot of people who was spanked as children who had wonderful parents, but that does not excuse spanking their own children. Especially not with all the research that keeps documenting that children that are spanked are more stressed and so on than children who don't, even the threat of spanking isn't good for a kid.

Yeah it is irrational, and do people really think this? I was spanked a few times as a kid, and I don't resent my parents for it nor did I turn out to be severely traumatized because of it. I still disagree with their decision to discipline myself and my siblings that way in the same sense that I disagree with every parent who does it. But my parents, while imperfect (like all of us) aren't bad people.

Closest thing I came to that growing up was my father who at times held me (hard enough to leave bruises) when we were arguing, which was a stupid thing to do, but he didn't know any better and it isn't like I was damaged by it. I would never do that to my own children, but his reaction came from ignorance and I can't claim that defence.

I also have friends whose parents in extreme cases did slap them a couple of times growing up, and those parents are wonderful nice parents they were just at their wits end and in their minds had no other options.

Then again if I spanked my future children it would be against the law and I could face a jail sentence and have my children taken away from me. As spanking is classified as abuse in Norway, as it should be.

It's not irrational.

making_excuses was polite about it, but I've seen this argument many many times and nearly everytime I've seen someone say 'spanking is child abuse' or 'spanking makes you a bad parent' or 'if I see a child getting spanked I will report the parent to CPS'.

FFS I remember some SJW a few years back argue that spanking was SEXUAL ABUSE and spanking girls will make them more likely to accept abusive relationships. If you weren't bothered by your childhood spanking you have stockholm syndrome!

There's only so much you can hear of that before you just instinctively eyeroll whenever the subject comes up.

I just roll my eyes at it in general because I have yet to see any sort of demonstrable proof that spanking causes lifelong harm.

My siblings and I were spanked. Most of my friends were spanked. My parents and their siblings were spanked. And, shockingly, all of us grew up just fine and have good relationships with our parents. None of us "acted out" or anything like that either. (In fact, not a single one of my siblings nor I ever even got a detention in school.)

There is a huge, huge difference between a quick spanking (which is intended to startle the child rather than actually hurt them) and actual child abuse. To be honest, I'm more concerned about the people who can't see the difference between the two.

Re: Controversial opinions

(Anonymous) - 2014-05-12 13:54 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Controversial opinions

making_excuses - 2014-05-12 12:00 (UTC) - Expand

I think a lot of people using spanking because they don't know how else to get the kid to stop.

Which makes me wonder if there should be parenting classes or something, to help parents know what to do.

Ideally, I agree with you, and I think the only time you should be using physical force against a child is if they're doing something stupid (like running into traffic, or getting into the cleaning stuff, or something.)

You know, I agree with this statement whole heartily, and I know I wouldn't spank my children if I had them, but for some reason I can't help feel like there is a "but" for in me that kinda disagrees with this, and I don't know what that but is.

The only "but" that seems acceptable to me is the absolute extreme of "my child is about to put themselves in mortal danger" and making the connection of something like running into traffic = pain because that's the way to keep them safe. otoh, I'm not really sure if I agree with that because if your kid isn't old enough to understand WHY running into traffic is a bad thing, on a cognitive level, then you shouldn't be letting them play near traffic. Seriously.

Re: Controversial opinions

making_excuses - 2014-05-12 11:54 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Controversial opinions

diet_poison - 2014-05-13 00:34 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Controversial opinions

making_excuses - 2014-05-13 03:31 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Controversial opinions

diet_poison - 2014-05-13 15:14 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Controversial opinions

making_excuses - 2014-05-13 15:33 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Controversial opinions

diet_poison - 2014-05-13 16:34 (UTC) - Expand

I also hate that this is "controversial." No violence - including spanking. In fact, leading psychology groups (including the APA, etc) have suggested that spanking is HARMFUL to kids. Which is kind of a no-brainer - you are basically, as a parent, illustrating to your child that violence is an acceptable way to get your point across. Not to mention spanking has not actually correlated with decreasing negative behaviors, but the opposite - children spanked tend to misbehave more often, and there is always a chance of spanking escalating into more serious violence.

It's ridiculous, but to me, shows a parent who doesn't know how to control their kid. Much better form of punishment? Make them do chores. Not only is it non-violent and still not-wanted by children, it also teaches about "making amends" for negative behavior by contributing positively to the household (or society). And it's productive.

100% agree. I'm from a culture where hitting kids is considered completely acceptable and commonplace and it just boggles my mind that no one finds anything wrong with it. I got into a pretty heated fight with a friend* over it not too long ago and her argument basically came down to "well, you don't have kids and I do therefore I'm allowed to have an opinion on whether it's ok to hit them and you're not". It's just insane.

*Really more of an acquaintance, but she's part of a larger group of people I did consider friends, so it caused a lot of drama.

It makes me angry and sad that this is even a tiny bit controversial. NB: in my state, some public and private schools still use "paddling" as a discipline, which as far as I'm concerned is sexual as well as physical abuse.

And this is why this is controversial.

Sexual? Really?

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