[ SECRET POST #2739 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2739 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 021 secrets from Secret Submission Post #391.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

And that's Uhura's role. Seriously that's it. That is the one single positive thing that has come out of the Star Trek reboots (and even then it's not 100% great given that there's a creepy scene of Kirk peeping on her while she's changing). But besides that they've butchered basically other character and actually REGRESSED in terms of portraying progressive values. I mean, I know Star Trek always had fan service, but in the new movies it's so blatant that it's *embarrassing*. And it doesn't even match the original TOS movies in terms of its portrayal of female characters or non-whites (Khan in STID is a fail on so many levels).

And it's not likely to get better considering the movies are now being written AND directed by Bob Orci -- who has never directed a thing in his life. Along with our two new writers who have no movie credits to their name and are devout Mormons writing for a series created by a man who saw the future as largely agnostic.

I have absolutely zero optimism at this point...

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, because her being on the Enterprise because she was sleeping with Spock is such a great step forward for a black woman.

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

She didn't get on the Enterprise BECAUSE she was sleeping with Spock -- she earned the placement, as seen when her knowledge of Romulan outstrips the individual currently manning the station and she relieves him. She EARNED a spot. Spock was the one being a giant asshole and almost ruining her career to save face.

No, her part isn't perfect, but she does get more lines and screen time. The Klingon scene was really cool too -- although I much prefer the original version compared to what's actually in the film.

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

Bullshit. She may or may not have earned a place without Spock, but if she hadn't then she sure as hell would not have been able to bully any other assigning officer into bumping someone else for her. The only reason she is there is because she was able to use her personal connection with Spock to make him bump someone else for her. This is why superior officers are not supposed to fuck junior ones, and if he really had to do so then Spock's original decision was the correct one to avoid favoritism.

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

I get that. The thing is, though, no other officer would have assigned her to the Farragut because they wouldn't have been concerned about the appearance of favoritism. An impartial observer would have assigned her to the Enterprise but Spock wasn't impartial and hence she took him to task for almost screwing her over to cover his own ass.

It WOULD have been favoritism if Uhura were unqualified, but she was clearly MORE qualified than the person they had -- indicating that the fault lies with Spock.

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

That she ultimately turned out to know a different language set from the other guy is irrelevant. That is just luck (or writer being lazy about characterization), that comes after she bitched to her boyfriend about not getting the plum job and the boyfriend giving in. Hey, in any other service if you don't like your assignment, or think it is beneath you, then that is just tough luck. And if you are fucking a superior officer or instructor, and try complaining to the brass that they aren't giving you a plum enough job that you think you are worth, then you just got both of you fired. Uhura gets the job because she is fucking Spock, and it is just good luck she happened to know the exact one of five million interstellar languages that the villain turned out to speak.

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

Unfortunately, I can't agree with you given that Spock said that he placed her on the Farragut in order to avoid the appearance of favoritism. If he hadn't said that, if she wasn't one of his top students, and if she hadn't shown herself to be more competent than the man currently at the communications post (to such a degree that PIKE immediately asks her to replace him) then I would agree with you.

The scene is definitely problematic though and it is rather emblematic of the issues of the Spuhura relationship -- it's underdeveloped. Because the first time we see that scene it does, indeed, look like a member of a military-style organization chewing out a superior officer for not getting exactly what she wants. The problem is that, given Spock and Uhura's personal relationship, Spock's judgement was impaired in this instance and Uhura was right. It's a scene of a girlfriend taking her boyfriend to task for trying to hide their relationship in a way that negatively impacts HER career. Pike would not have asked her to take the post if she were unqualified. And Spock himself admits that the reason she was assigned to the Farragut is due to him wanting to cover his ass -- not because the Farragut is where she's best suited or the place she earned. The place she earned is on the Enterprise.

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

And the place she was assigned was the Farragut. If she didn't like it, then she should have thought about that before embarking on a relationship with her superior. In that sense, she earned that place on the Farragut through lack of good judgement.

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

Clearly she should have just forced her best friend to smuggle her onboard the ship when she wasn't even supposed to be on there in the first place like Kirk did, since apparently when Uhura demands the place she earned it's terrible but when Kirk bullies his friend into getting him a spot he did not earn there's no trouble at all. So sick of this particular double standard.

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

I actually think that McCoy's the one who instigated it. Kirk had accepted that he was left behind, but McCoy looks back at him and can't abandon him so he uses his medical knowledge to get Kirk onboard. I think, in this case, it would be more pertinent to ask why people don't take McCoy to task rather than Kirk -- since Kirk wasn't really the "actor" in this instance.

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

Spock's sleeping with his students, Kirk's hacking the database, McCoy's a hypochondriac washout from civvie life with no respect for rules. Pike gives out Starfleet references to his friend's drunken son. The relief helmsman doesn't know how to start the ship and the duty helmsman pulled a sickie...are we sure this Enterprise was the flagship because it is starting to sound more like the F troop to me.

Shit, we got another screw up. This one can't pronounce his "W"s. Where can we post him? Out with the beagle killer, or just stick him on the Enterprise with the rest of them?

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

I laughed. Then I cried because it's so true.

Although I believe TOS Kirk also hacked the database as well for the Kobayashi Maru.

I would have liked to see that movie.

[nyxelestia]

This is a good point, and one I wish the movie ran with.

Because from what I remember, TOS had these guys as all being the best in their fields and with extensive careers under their belts by the time they came together on the Enterprise.

I wouldn't have minded them being total screw-ups in this movie, if it had really gone for a "before they were famous"/"before the legend" angle. It would have been fantastic to see them go from being total screw-ups who do stupid things like sleep with superiors, hack databases, and violate medical ethics, to the highly-competent and well-trained people we've seen in the show, especially if it went with a "screw-ups but also geniuses" attitude.

Not only did the movie not go that route, but it played them off as already being the good Starfleet officers we see in the movie, but without any career or much training to back that up. It takes their imperfections and instead of analyzing, deconstructing, or otherwise utilizing them as flaws, the movie tries to legitimize them or dismiss them outright.

I would love for the movie being about Spock learning to control his latent rage into the serene calm from TOS, watching Uhura going from someone who sleeps with superiors to standing in her own right and maintaining professionalism despite awkward pasts, and I would definitely have loved to see Kirk go from being a wild child for the sake of it to learning how to follow the rules unless they are actively wrong. And seeing Pike come to regret his referral, only to be proven wrong/right-all-along, would have been a fantastic story-arc.

Instead, we got STID.

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[tabaqui]

No fucking kidding.

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe because "I'm Chaotic Good, dammit" was classic McCoy's schtick, so it fit what the audience expected off a younger, less responsible version of that character. And, it happens early enough in the movie that some viewers hadn't realized that everyone is Chaotic now (because that's darker and edgier), so McCoy was given the benefit of the doubt.

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

When will the notion that a woman standing up for herself is bullying die?

Please just let it die. She was right, he was wrong. He was fucking her over, and he admitted it, period.

She had a right to stand up for herself.

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

I don't have anything against Spock/Uhura, but I think Uhura was still criminally underused and underdeveloped as a character. In STID her role was pretty much "Spock's girlfriend".
And, Uhura's role as a black female character who was a non-stereotype, shown to be just important as her white male crewmates, and who occasionally had something badass to do, was actually incredibly progressive for the 1960s.
I feel like Abrams doesn't really deserve that point, in a lot of regards.

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

Just to clear things up -- I'm a Spirk shipper through and through. And I think Spuhura in the new films is terribly written (although I think the idea of them is damn cute..). I agree with you that Uhura is portrayed too much as "Spock's girlfriend." In STID, she basically asked Kirk how he was when Pike died but basically everything else about her (besides the Klingon scene) is centered around Spock.

Could her role be better? YES. But I still think that even though it's not up to today's standards and there are still huge issues, giving her more screen time is a positive step forward. Sulu and Chekov, for example, don't really get to do much more than her. So it's not perfect and it's by no means revolutionary the way Uhura was in the 1960s, but at least she gets more screen time and some badass scenes (Klingon scene and helping to fight Khan).

But her role definitely needs major improvement. She still has no backstory and no independent plot line. So I see what you mean -- in terms of progressivism, Uhura in the 1960s pushed the envelope more than Uhura in JJ Trek. But I do like that she's in the film more rather than relegated to the side.

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

"In STID her role was pretty much "Spock's girlfriend"."

When so many people who watch these movies don't see her character this way, I'm inclined to think this idea is coming from those who do.

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

I think the problem is that SO many of her scenes revolve around Spock -- in the opening with the volcano, then when she talks with Kirk, there's a nice moment when they discuss Pike that immediately switches to talking about Spock (Kirk's fault there, but I'm talking about the context of the narrative). Then there's Kirk asking if she and Spock can work together. Then there's her discussion with Spock on Kronos. Then, later, she goes down to fight Khan with Spock.

All in all, I think there's three scenes of hers that don't revolve around Spock -- her briefly talking to Kirk about Pike, the Klingon scene, and then when Kirk talks to her right before he heads off with Harrison to board the vengeance. And, of those, only the Klingon scene has any real meat to it.

When you compare her role to, say, McCoy, you'll see what I mean -- McCoy is primarily Kirk's friend, but he still gets scenes with Sulu, with Spock, with Carol that exist independently of Kirk. And he's a less prominent character than Uhura (which I don't mind, just to be clear -- much as I love McCoy, I think this is a girlfriend).

I think a lot of the "Spock's girlfriend" talk has to do with the fact that SO MUCH of her role in STID is inseparable from Spock.

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

Edit to above: "much as I love McCoy, I think this is a girlfriend" should read "I think this is a good thing"

This is what happens when I erase blocks of texts and then don't go back and re-read. Sorry for the confusion.

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

Everyone's scenes revolve around Kirk & Spock. Everyone.

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

And not all of her scenes revolved around Spock. Her most memorable scenes do (ST), but that is the nature of the emotions in those scenes. We don't even know there is a connection between them at first, but we've already had three Uhura scenes (at least).

STID
She also had scenes with Sulu, Scotty and Kirk. She has scenes where she accomplished things unrelated to her relationship to Spock. These scenes don't matter to people because they are so busy examining her relationship, which does exist and should have some relevance, to care about them.

This is a character driven series about the relationships they have. Family was the theme of STID.

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

I would say, though, that Scotty and Uhura's especially are fixated on one person. For Scotty it's Kirk and for Uhura it's Spock. Sulu and Chekov get very little screen time, but Scotty barely interacts with anyone but Kirk while Uhura barely interacts with anyone but Spock. McCoy gets a bit more variety -- he has scenes with Khan, Kirk, Sulu, and Carol Marcus.

I think the reason the writing of Uhura's role gets picked on a lot is because she's being billed up there with Kirk and Spock (check any of the posters or promotional materials) while her role is basically equally to Scotty's (or even less so in some parts). In STID, for example, I'd say Scotty got a meatier role in terms of plot relevance than she did -- refusing to sign for the torpedoes, sneaking onboard the vengeance, stopping Marcus, letting Kirk and Khan in, then fighting alongside them. Uhura had some moments too -- like the Klingons and fighting Khan -- but they were fewer and the Klingons, in particular, didn't end up listening to her.

People are annoyed that they're playing her up without really giving her the substance that the promotional material is implying. I mean, in terms of backstory, we know more about McCoy than Uhura -- we know why he joined Starfleet, we know he has aviophobia, we know he was divorced and lost basically everything in that divorce. With Uhura, the most backstory she's been given is that she was Gaila's roommate. So I think a lot of fans feel cheated. At least, that's sometimes how I feel.

Has Uhura's role been improved. I think so -- hence why I said it was literally the only good thing to come out of the reboots. But it's still got a lot of flaws and room for improvement. And, unlike basically every other role, I don't think the writing of her narrative lives up to the promotional material.

My two cents for what they are worth.

Re: The Reboots Improved Literally One Thing

[(Anonymous)]

In the first one, Uhura's clearly on Spock's side, but her plot was also focused on showing who Kirk was growing to be. She was right there for every step in his development from underachieving genius to captain.

In the second, while she was illustrating Spock's PTSD she was also, along with the other characters, highlighting Kirk's need to rely on his family. He was making rash decisions and most of them had a moment to show how much Kirk needs to rely on his crew. Her role in this movie was poorly written, imho, but it wasn't only UhuraxSpock. UhuraxKirk was there too.

"Has Uhura's role been improved. I think so -- hence why I said it was literally the only good thing to come out of the reboots. But it's still got a lot of flaws and room for improvement. And, unlike basically every other role, I don't think the writing of her narrative lives up to the promotional material." I agree with your position. She has been improved, but there is room for improvement.