[ SECRET POST #2926 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2926 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 036 secrets from Secret Submission Post #418.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

No. Your right to fangirl without thinking of any broader implications is just not something that should be protected. That is stupid. Yes it's an issue if people find things problematic that aren't, and if you think about it and believe that something isn't problematic you should fangirl about it and that's fine.

But, I mean, there are clearly things that are problematic and shouldn't be fangirled about. I mean if you have some straight up racist caricature no you shouldn't fangirl it. The idea that we should just forget about all of that and let everyone like what they like is ridiculous but that's what your secret comes down to.

[(Anonymous)]

The issue is, though, that things often get called problematic when they're really not.

Or people who go on and on about how "problematic" something is treat the people who like it like they're five years old and can't separate fiction from reality. Which is condescending as hell.

[(Anonymous)]

That's a problem with people being wrong about it or being dicks about it. It's not a problem with the idea that some things are problematic and that's basically a bad thing. And it doesn't mean we should just ignore anyone who talks about social justice issues in media.

[(Anonymous)]

You know what, I don't give a shit about the "broader implications" of something like "Gone with the Wind" or "My Fair Lady," or even things like "Human Target" or "Mind Games," and I will fangirl them all I like.

Feel free to be a judgmental ass about it, though. Clearly, you will anyway.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm really not trying to be a judgmental ass and I apologize if it comes off that way.

My point is that whether or not you want to fangirl about Gone with the Wind, there are issues there and your desire to fangirl about it doesn't trump someone else's desire to think about the issues. I also kind of think you have a responsibility to at least be aware of the issues (as you apparently are) just as a human being but I don't think that should necessarily stop you from fangirling.

[(Anonymous)]

They can think about the issues on their own time and in their own space then, and leave me out of it.

Sometimes I just want to squee about how much I love my favorite things without having a bunch of busybodies coming down on my head about how awful I am for daring to enjoy them. And you are not the fandom police, and you don't get to tell me what I'm "allowed" to like, or that I have a "responsibility" to look at the larger issues. Because you're not, and I don't.

[lb_lee]

As far as "broader implications," I was imagining shit like, I dunno, Birth of a Nation.

...of course, it DID have a lot of fanboys, back in the day. Including at least one president.

[kallanda_lee]

The thing is, though, with certain platforms *tumblr*cough*tumblr* it's just really hard top just enjoy something with people without getting constant comments on it . Because people are in the same tags, or hell, even specifically go into tags that offend them so they can bitch about it.

Not sure how it is for this fandom, but I know it's an issue for some people writing Hydra Trash Party, for example.

The thing is, you can't just enjoy something, even if you DO acknowledge it's problematic, without having to defend or explain over and over again, because that is the nature of the medium.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes tumblr is dumb and I accept that. But I think we go too far sometimes in reaction to that.

Not OP

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, shut up and go away. Nobody appointed you the Fangirl Police, you fucking busybody. Like what you like and leave other people the hell alone.

Re: Not OP

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not trying to be the Fun Police. I just think those issues are there and a concerted attempt to ignore them does no one any good. I don't think there's any real middle ground to find here, though. But thanks for your reply anyway.

[feotakahari]

Counterpoint: Speedy Gonzalez. Just because a character is racist doesn't mean they're not awesome.

[(Anonymous)]

Comment inspired by this? http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MexicansLoveSpeedyGonzales

[(Anonymous)]

Part of my point I think is that everyone draws the line somewhere different, but I think most people do draw the line somewhere. So maybe for you Speedy Gonzalez is not where that line is but make him more and more racist and less and less awesome, and there's a point where everyone is going to find that line.

So my point is not that you can't like Sonny Gonzalez. But you can't in principle discard the idea of things being problematic, I think, or of figuring out what you can and can't like and how to deal with that. It seems to me to be an attempt to shut out the complexity and I don't think that's right.

[(Anonymous)]

Since you think it's unacceptable to let people like what they like, how do you propose making sure that nobody likes anything problematic? Stalking and doxxing?

Oh wait, why did I even have to ask? I bet that's exactly what you propose.

[(Anonymous)]

Since you like overreacting, how do you deal with crying children? Set them on fire while their parents watch?

Oh wait, why did I even have to ask? I bet that's exactly what you do.

[(Anonymous)]

No, I don't think any of that. I hope this response helps clear things up for you.

[(Anonymous)]

Problem is, most 'problematic' characters are labelled that by overzealous people looking to grab some moral high ground. It really detracts from the actual, you know, problematic characters.

GoT would be my main example of this. Dear god, that fandom is quick to condemn people.

[(Anonymous)]

Which is hilarious, because isn't it kind of the point that every single character is problematic?

[(Anonymous)]

I guess my position tends to be that it's probably better to ignore people who are obviously wrong and acting stupid about it than to reshape your opinions in opposition to them.

[diet_poison]

well technically she does have the right to fangirl without thinking about any intentions. Freedom of speech and all that.

It's not always polite, sometimes it's super disrespectful and short-sighted - but yes, it is her right. (Sorry, I'm being pedantic, but I don't like it when people use the word "right" this way because then it just sounds way too much like they are literally policing others' speech and it makes me understand where OP is coming from even if I don't 100% agree)

[stabbystabbyzebra]

Well technically, if she's fangirling on an internet site owned by someone else, the owner can kick her out if they don't like it. Government can't censor speech (and even then sometimes they still can), but private parties can.

[stabbystabbyzebra]

Sometimes something is so problematic that there's no way to justify liking it. But almost everything has something that's problematic about it, because we live in a society of prejudice and bias. It's okay to like problematic things, but it's good to be able to acknowledge the parts about them that are problematic.

[(Anonymous)]

what is an example of something so problematic that there's no way to justify liking it? neo nazi metal or something?

[(Anonymous)]

Tumblr is that way --->