[ SECRET POST #3129 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3129 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 026 secrets from Secret Submission Post #447.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

10. http://i.imgur.com/eaSAPwS.png

[(Anonymous)]

...who?

[cbrachyrhynchos]

I thought both were woobified, at least we had a whole mess of "was Gothel really that bad" secrets a while back.

But people woobify Loki, which is beyond absurd.

[(Anonymous)]

I haven't seen the woobie!Hans side of fandom tbh (even the people I see who ship him with other characters still portray him as a douche) but it doesn't surprise me that it exists. I have seen a lot of people who justify Gothel's actions by giving "proof" that she truly loved Rapunzel as a daughter though (even on this comm). I think the reason why so many people are offended by Gothel defenders is because after the movie came out, there were a lot of people who felt that her characterization hit too close to home and reminded them of their own emotionally abusive/manipulative parents (not even just people in fandom. I remember several movie reviews that commented on it and my own step-mother could hardly finish the movie because Gothel's mannerisms reminded her heavily of her mom). Several of her scenes were just plain unsettling

[(Anonymous)]

I am not in the Frozen fandom, but it seems to me from people who are that everyone hates Hans.

[caerbannog]

All the Hans posts i see are how he's the most evil character. Which he's not really but it's an entertaining meme.

[(Anonymous)]

I rather found Hans ridiculously 2-dimensional as a villain, and felt that Frozen's biggest flaw was that it lacked a real antagonist (should've been a Elsa, who was then redeemed in the end, as it originally was supposed to be imo). I always forget Hans was even in that movie.

Goethel I suppose just gives people more of a personal reaction because she is so much more realistic. Moms like that exist in real life, and that's what is so much scarier about her than Hans, who purely exists in a fantasy world.

[yuuago]

Huh. That's interesting. I've never encountered that attitude toward Hans. Generally what I see is that he's an asshole. Not much beyond that.

[morieris]

Mother Gothel is a woman who used a magic flower that was out in semi public for hundreds of years. Said flower - that was never outright stated to be in her ownership - is taken, and after a process, is reborn into Rapunzel. Whom she steals, lies to, and belittles for 18 years.

Hans thought up an elaborate plan to marry Anna and murder her (though in retrospect, he does mention something like "No one was getting anywhere with Elsa" - was his initial meeting with Elsa as Anna's fiance supposed to upset her enough to lose it and expose herself? What if she hadn't? He probably would have just murdered her in her sleep or something, but Elsa's kind of a loose card in all this. Do you think he saw Elsa's powers and went "Holy shit this may be harder than I thought?").

I could find a better understanding for SOME of Gothel's actions than I can for any of Hans.

[(Anonymous)]

Well women are evil. Nonstop.

[ketita]

I personally haven't seen too much woobification of him either, but I suppose if I wanted to make an excuse for why it could be happening, I'd say it's because there's a vague way to shift the blame. There are nebulous 'others' who can be called abusive, therefore Hans can be absolved*.
We don't have anything like that for Gothel, no background, nothing beyond her desire for the flower's power. Therefore she's Pure Evil with no redeeming qualities, or abusive past to excuse her.

*this is bullshit, yes? Hans was despicable

[(Anonymous)]

This animation style is serious uncanny valley territory for me. Am I alone?

[amanuensis1]

I haven't seen Hans woobified, but I've enjoyed the meta that looks to excuse the shoddy face heel turn written into Hans' story by trying to invent different motives for him. (My favorite is that the trolls actually changed Hans ["Get the fiancé out of the way"] so that Kristof could become Anna's boyfriend instead.)

[(Anonymous)]

can't say I've seen that much woobie portrayals of either, but people are possibly more familiar with being badly treated by mothers than they are being manipulated by someone with the goal of ruling a kingdom or whatever hans' deal was. might explain why people react more strongly to rapunzel's ma than they do hans.

[(Anonymous)]

The only thing I can think of was that I knew from the very beginning of Tangled that Gothel was the bad guy. I had been spoiled about Hans going into the movie so I did pick up the signs that he was also a bad guy but it wasn't nearly as obvious.

I could see someone beginning the movie and really liking Hans/Anna as a couple. Him turning evil is a bit of left-turn in the movie. He appears to be helping everyone and being concerned about Elsa and the kingdom.

So, if you started out liking him as the character you originally saw (missing all hints of bad-dudenss), then you may want to explain away his actions to recapture that initial good-guy persona that he appeared to be in the beginning. Even knowing he was going to be the bad guy, I found him surprisingly likable early in the film and was disappointed when he turned evil.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm only 18, but I totally root for her and any female villain who's obsessed with staying young.

Her obsession is a fear all women share, and I can totally see myself going batshit in 20-30 years tbh

[(Anonymous)]

while I have no doubt that at least a good part of why Hans is defended as opposed to Gothel is because he's male, I also think their situations are different enough that it's difficult to compare them? personally I can find it in myself to understand a guy who's last in line for the throne deciding to become a manipulative bastard more than I can a woman who just wants to stay young with magic powers.

[(Anonymous)]

While I don't think that either of them are good people, I can sort of see why someone would be more likely to see Hans as a woobie. Gothel abducted and emotionally abused a child over the course of eighteen years, with a side dish of enslavement; where Hans' evil actions took place over only a few days, and were mixed in with what at least seems to be a few decent acts (towards the commoners). It makes it easier to imagine him redeeming himself, or perhaps being an otherwise tolerable human being when not actively being driven to evil by his greed.

[(Anonymous)]

Hans is a pretty white boy.

Are you new around here or what?

[(Anonymous)]

I don't understand how the fan depictions of these 2 can be compared to be honest since they're different types of villains with different motives. I feel like there should actually be similarities if there's going to be comparison. The only thing these 2 have in common is that they're villains. But they're stories aren't really comparable and this secret doesn't seem to take that into account on why people have such vastly different opinions of them. In direct reply to the secret though I've seen a decent enough amount of the opposite opinion of both Hans and Gothel to consider it not a problem. Both characters seem to have a 'half-and-half' thing going on when it comes to how people view them.

[(Anonymous)]

Oooooooop, truth bomb.

[(Anonymous)]

We had so many 'I think Mother Gothel loved Rapunzel in her own way' secrets back in the day tho.

[(Anonymous)]

They are both assholes, imo. I don't care if Hans was abused, and there are no "Shades of Grey(tm)" regarding Mother Gothel.

[(Anonymous)]

The people I know who try to convince everyone that he's just a poor, misunderstood baby are the same people who get that way with every jackass male character in any fandom they get into.

The reason Gothel doesn't have that subset of fans isn't because she isn't interesting enough. It's because she isn't a pretty bad boy that people can imagine changing into a good guy through the power of ~love. I'm pretty sure these people have been around since the dawn of fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

I'd say 60% Hans is a hot dude, 30% people are more likely to have dealt with a "Gothel" than a "Hans" in their life, and maybe like 10% that Hans' actions can be handwaved by age since he's in his early 20s, but Gothel is HUNDREDS OF YEARS OLD.