[ SECRET POST #3563 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3563 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Notorious]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 16 secrets from Secret Submission Post #509.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

05. http://i.imgur.com/1B5xVZO.png

[(Anonymous)]

What?? It is literally just a descriptor that is no different than "Angst" or "Oral Sex."

[(Anonymous)]

...I don't really see the big deal? I typically don't have a strong preference for who tops or bottoms, but I think it makes sense to tag it in PWPs for the sake of organization (sometimes I just want to read about a certain character getting railed, you dig?). I mean, I definitely don't think people need to tag it, but I don't have a problem if they do. The only thing I have a problem with is whiny jagweeds who comment on a fic just to demand that the author tag who bottoms. That's just rude.

[(Anonymous)]

Some people get really, really particular about who "should" do what to whom, and some writers may have been pressured into including a tag just to satisfy people who claim to be "triggered" by the Insert Tab A into Slot B being the "wrong" way around and it doesn't necessarily reflect the writer's views on how gay sex works.

[(Anonymous)]

Today marks a momentous day in the field of gender studies.

Citing "long hours of scientific research" of erotic stories on AO3 as well as a study involving an entire 20 authors as well as the unbiased experience of "like, everyone [they] know," a rogue genius scientist, in the acclaimed journal FandomSecrets, has brought an end to the gender identity debate armed with nought but an armchair and a belly full of disgust.

Reactions were mixed.

"It's all so clear to me now," said Luis, 32, through joyous tears. "I thought I was tagging my porn to be courteous so that readers could avoid the pairing dynamics they hated, but I was wrong. I was a straight girl all along. I feel free."

On the other hand, Jeff, Luis's husband, informed us that he was disappointed and betrayed by these revelations. "We've been married for six years," he said, with a sad shake of his head. "And I find out now, like this, that he never even knew how to have gay sex. No wonder it wasn't working out like I'd hoped."

The anonymous scientist could not be reached for comment.

[nightscale]

I personally don't care who's taking it, but some people do and I guess it's handy for them. I mean to be honest I don't even pay attention to top/bottom tags so I usually don't know if the author's tagged it.

[(Anonymous)]

*snort* That's not kinkshaming, that's being super judgmental about people accurately labeling their stories. How very dare they.

[ketita]

I don't get the mechanics of this. Do you mean Character X/Character Y? I mean you always need to have somebody first in the list...

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, so enjoying something in pornography means you think that's how Real Sex works? This makes A/B/O even more troubling...

[sparrow_lately]

I mean I think I see where you're coming from but sometimes somebody's just looking for a wank and their kink is Character A on top and this helps. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[(Anonymous)]

but what if no thought has been put into which character comes first before the slash when pulling up tags? what if I just literally thought of character A first and can't even remember whether A bottomed or topped, and started typing their name, and that's what popped up in AO3's handy auto-fill suggestion?

how do you know the tag is specifically because of who tops? unless you're on pixiv, man, some of those artists are militant about only tagging who tops.

[(Anonymous)]

I tag that way as a courtesy to readers. As others in this thread have said, there are readers who are looking for (or are trying to avoid) certain pairings written in certain ways. I am fully aware that in some gay relationships switching happens, but I've also known gay couples where one or both has a definite preference.

Which makes sense to me as a submissive bisexual woman.

[(Anonymous)]

Unfortunately, people still have stereotypes associated with Top/bottom. This means if I prefer a certain characterization during sex, or a certain slight dom/sub subtext, Top/bottom is the way to go.

This is usually in smut/pwp heavy fics. Otherwise, the stereotypes are played down (unless it's dom/sub. I always prefer the person who seems more put together/restrained to be the sub and people always tend to headcanon them as the dom) in the multi-chapter, plot-y fics.

People tag to get views. Porn people also tag bc some people care about who is getting cock to get off.

tldr: stfu. People tag

[cbrachyrhynchos]

This again?

[(Anonymous)]

LOL @ SB ;) IKWYM...

[(Anonymous)]

Pffftttt!
I love fics that tell me who is bottom and who is top because I have a very specific preference in any pairing I ship.
Who are you to tell me I'm a Nazi?

[(Anonymous)]

I think you're the one who doesn't know anything about gay sex.

[(Anonymous)]

You're the one who sounds like the straight girl. Tops and bottoms are a thing in the gay community. Sure, many people are vers, and it's not always the yaoi seme/uke cliches, but slashfic did not invent tops/bottoms.

[ninety6tears]

Topping is a myth. Anal sex is a myth. Gay sex is also a myth.

[(Anonymous)]

To you, it may seem like not knowing how gay sex works.

To me, it's called "posting Supernatural smut without being ALLCAPSed at."

[(Anonymous)]

Going against the overall grain here, I actually agree with you to an extent. But that's just because I think that some writers who are fixated on who tops/bottoms tend to write their characters completely ooc to fit traditional seme/uke dynamics. So, seeing it tagged sometimes lends itself to avoiding shitty writing.

Although honestly, I don't tag for it partially of out of spite (though it's mostly because I really don't think to tag for it - it's not something that I consider important to the story). I've gotten some really shitty comments from entitled readers who think they're owed the tags. Not even something like 'hey, could you tag for this?', but assholishness like 'why the fuck did I waste my time reading this shit? you made so-and-so bottom which is wrong and it's not what i wanted to read' (paraphrased, but damn close to one actual comment).

I mean, c'mon, if it's such a HUGE hang-up for you, and it's not tagged, either don't read, or just ask! I responds to all comments and have my email available. Leaving rude, inflammatory comments really doesn't make me want to help you out... And I'm not going to be disappointed if I lose you as a reader if it's not tagged.

[(Anonymous)]

LOOK It's *not* real gay sex, it's fiction. Fiction has to have a point to every scene. YOur characters should not be having sex unless the sex has a point, so everything in your sex scene has to provide either character and plot development, or get the reader off. It's not like real life where stuff just kind of happens according to what people feel like and there might be really complicated and probably slightly boring reasons why("i'm tired" "I got a cramp last time" "I had the chilli"). Not everyone gets off to the same things the same way, when they're reading or looking at porn with the intent to become aroused and maybe achieve orgasm. People.have.preferences in their porn, a strong preference for who is doing what to whom is no different than a preference for body types and hair colors and themes- as in they may have difficulty getting off if their preferences are not featured. For someone who was planning to try to become aroused and/or get off, this can definitely be something which will make the reader disappointed and annoyed. So, we let each other know, as both warning and advertisement, because that's fricking polite to your readers not to trick them into reading something they don't want to read. And it's OKAY TO NOT WANT TO READ IT. I am so sick of people scolding each other for having those preferences, as if, if you REALLY loved the characters you would read any dynamic and if you don't, it means you have bad taste and you're a heterosexist who doesn't understand gay sex.

Because there are no gay men with preferences, Oh no, never, and there are no straight women who prefer something different in their man/woman dynamic than they typically see in media and who love that in slash, they're the one who gets to pick who does what according to their own needs. Like maybe they like to imagine topping in a way they could never pull off in real life (hetero femdom is not really the same, if you're fantasizing about being a big, masculine gay top who can truly manhandle is partner, or dream about walking into a room and not having every attempt to top start with a stupid fight about it) , so the character they most identify with is actually the one they like to see topping and it actively turns them off to find themselves reading (without warning) a fic where "they" are suddenly bottoming. Many people do not appreciate being surprised by things they don't want, while they're in the middle of getting off (in fact, people trying to get off tend to prefer predictable scenarios TMI sometimes it makes things easier when you know what's no pun intended coming)

I'm reading porn to get off (or slash romance in order to have a sort of "emotional orgasm") and I have preferences for how I want to do that. I tend to care less about those things if the sex scene is part of a fully plotted out mainstream published novel with original characters. Because then, becoming aroused is a nice surprise, it was never part of a deliberate plan and I have no pre arranged fantasy in my head for how I want the dynamic to work out(also I tend to skip the sex scenes in mainstream lit since they're so often not...good..so I really am reading for plot).

WHen it comes to fanfiction, people only want to read very specific things, *the thing they wanted to read*. The fantasy they *specifically set out to indulge*. No curveballs.

And most people only have a certain amount of time in their day to read fanfiction, so they need to know before they start, that they won't be wasting their time reading something they're not going to get what they wanted out of. So they need to know exactly what it is they're clicking on in order to winnnow down the several to dozens to hundreds of fics available. The more information you give readers ahead of time, the easier it is for them to decide whether or not your work is worth their time. And that, folks...

Is WHY WE FUCKING TAG THINGS.

[(Anonymous)]

I also think that's incredibly unfair, as readers often shriek abuse at writers for labeling tops/bottoms etc.

it feels like there is literally no winning when it comes to tagging.

*shrugs* but if that is one less reader leaving abuse, then I am all for it.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't care if people tag that or not because I don't have top/bottom preferences with my slash ships, but I don't like the assumption that the only reason writers tag top/bottom is because they have constricted ideas of how gay sex works. Some people do have preferences, so why not tag the fic for their benefit? I just ignore those tags when they are used and I'm sure most people without preferences do as well (except, I guess, you OP) so there should be no harm in it.

[(Anonymous)]

Lol all this drama makes me glad i don't care who tops or bottoms in a fic. I actually prefer to read about other sexual activities if i'm gonna read smut.

I don't see how labeling it is a big deal. Now if a author insisted this character has to top/bottom then I'd agree. No person has to like a certain thing because of the way they act/look.