[ SECRET POST #4069 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4069 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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09. [SPOILERS for Stargate Origins]



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10. [WARNING for possible discussion of nazis/genocide/etc]












Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #582.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

10. [WARNING for possible discussion of nazis/genocide/etc]
https://78.media.tumblr.com/eb569fdc185a6097b64f7be71d4e571b/tumblr_p498qeXLvt1w8qvzio1_1280.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

People say what now?

I guess I'm grateful for my tiny rock that I live under in the corner of every fandom I'm in.

[(Anonymous)]

(Full disclosure: I'm not a SW fan but I am familiar with it b/c I have friends and family who are.)

I honestly think the main reason ppl hate on Kylo Ren is because the actor who plays him is unattractive.

[(Anonymous)]

People think he's super hot

[(Anonymous)]

Ayart

I know they do. However, there are others who are WAY over the top about how supposedly fugly he is. And during the screening of the movie I was at, during the scene where he takes the mask off, there were giggles, a few EEEWs, and one "Yikes put it back on".

[(Anonymous)]

I guess you're super beautiful "Kylo Ren is ugly" OP. I know this will come as a ahock but different people have different views when it comes to what they find attractive. Mind blown, right?

[(Anonymous)]

You don't need to be this defensive about something that people on this comm seem to vehemently agree with you about

[(Anonymous)]

Ayart

No, sweetie, I'm not.

[(Anonymous)]

Kylo Ren pushes so many of my hormonal buttons; I find him insanely physically attractive, and yet Reylo makes me foam at the mouth, I hate the idea of his being redeemed by romantic love so much. I’m not really onboard with his being redeemed at all, but if he is redeemed, better it be because he dies protecting Leia or something. Kylo Ren is horrifying; I don’t give a fuck if he’s hot.

[(Anonymous)]

He's not classically handsome, but as Kylo Ren he's easy on the eyes and does make an attractive villain in black.

[(Anonymous)]

Oy, he's really cute!

[(Anonymous)]

Villains being nuanced and complicated does not mean that they stop being villains. Kylo Ren has interesting elements of nuance but is also the literal evil space overlord of a literal evil empire that slaughters massive numbers of people, and who actively has chosen to continue doing so when given the opportunity to stop on several different occasions.

I don't want to have flat villains with no humanizing or relatable qualities. But neither do I want to pretend that villains aren't villains. And what Kylo has done is some seriously bad shit. I'm personally uninterested in overlooking that and making him exclusively sympathetic, or making him more relatable than he is. I don't think it's a good interpretation of the series to ignore any of that, and I'll be extremely disappointed if the character is redeemed or forgiven in a way that doesn't bear with the weight of what he's done.

Obviously, you know, write whatever fic you want, I don't give a shit. That's up to you. But I don't agree with it and I'm not ever going to agree with it, and if you're going to talk about it like it's canon, I'm not going to agree with it.

[(Anonymous)]

This. Exactly.

I don't have a problem of establishing some sympathetic points to understand where a villain is coming from, but woobifying him in redemption will make me puke.

Plus, it's dishonest.

[(Anonymous)]

I can’t even see the nuance there, for me it’s so overshadowed by the “evil space overlord” part. To counteract that much evil, he’d have to be so blantantly conflicted the narrative could drive it home with a mallet. He doesn’t seem to have any good qualities, not only is he never shown to be honorable or loyal or kind, he doesn’t even have any self-control.

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you OP! Yes, villains can be omg three-dimensional and people see them as human beings and thus can feel sympathy for them, despite their terrible actions.
Clap for you OP.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with everything except that Kylo's intended to be nuanced. He's... pretty obviously a stereotypical entitled white boy. I guess if your basis of comparison is Joss Whedon characters or something... well no, not even then. If Xander Harris was a Sith Lord, he'd be Kylo Ren.

[(Anonymous)]

If Xander Harris was a Sith Lord, he'd be Kylo Ren.

lol, but also true

[(Anonymous)]

I'm pretty sure they mean nuanced as in having development/conflict/angst and motivations beyond cartoonishly evil or evil for evil's sake, not nuanced as in super deep and unusually well-written.

[(Anonymous)]

Darth Whedon? Ardo Ran?

[(Anonymous)]

Liking anything in fiction does not mean you are a Nazi sympathizer in real life. It is fiction. No apologies necessary.

[(Anonymous)]

what if it's The Turner Diaries

[(Anonymous)]

God, Kylo is such a shitty rehash of a character trope that has been beaten to death at this point. Except this time it's even worse because he's played by an extremely homely white dude that nobody even looked twice at until he played Loki 2.0.

[(Anonymous)]

So basically "baaaaaaaaw stop liking characters I don't like".

[(Anonymous)]

DID THESE PEOPLE EVEN WATCH RETURN OF THE JEDI

I MEAN ACTUALLY WATCHED IT, ALL THE WAY TO THE END

I'm so glad I'm not in this fandom, it's full of idiots

[(Anonymous)]

The Vader comparison is a little weird. I wouldn't consider Vader a fundamentally sympathetic character - at the very least, not after all of the various slaughtering that he does in Sith, which is the equivalent point to where Kylo is at in terms of the character development. He certainly has dimensions and complexity, but that's not the same as being sympathetic or relatable. And he stops being a romantic protagonist around the same time as he goes full-on evil-y evil. And then at the end of Jedi, Vader is certainly redeemed, but not without massive and significant sacrifice - he gives his life to save his son and destroy the Emperor.

So if you're saying that Kylo Ren is an interesting character in a similar way to Vader, and if you're saying that it's possible for Kylo Ren to be redeemed, I totally agree with both of those things! What I'm much more skeptical of is the idea that he's a fundamentally sympathetic character, a character that we should generally relate to, or that he's going to be redeemed without massive and profound sacrifice that would most likely involve his death, or that he should be regarded as a sympathetic romantic protagonist.