[ SECRET POST #4113 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4113 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 55 secrets from Secret Submission Post #589.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Tangent based on #1

[agirlnamedtruth]

Because it got me thinking... non-sexist jerk male characters? Are there any? Any character that have redeemed themselves? Where do you draw the line with a character you otherwise like?

Re: Tangent based on #1

[kaijinscendre]

Vegeta. He just hates everyone except his wife and sometimes his kids.

Re: Tangent based on #1

[(Anonymous)]

Do you mean male characters who are jerks but not in a sexist way

or male characters who aren't sexist jerks?

Re: Tangent based on #1

[(Anonymous)]

Like, I hope it's the former because asking "are there any?" of the latter sounds uh, unfortunate.

Re: Tangent based on #1

[(Anonymous)]

how so

Re: Tangent based on #1

[(Anonymous)]

Because if they meant "are any cishet male characters who are of eligible shipping age range and involved in canon heterosexual ships or shipteases or romance, not sexist jerks?" then maybe you have a question, but you know, that is a very different question from "any male characters, gay, trans, alien, child, etc etc"

Re: Tangent based on #1

[agirlnamedtruth]

Male characters that aren’t sexist jerks (and/or jerks at all, I’ll happily hear about non-jerks of all kinds). I couldn’t think of any, maybe I watch the wrong shows but if that’s an unfortunate view point then sorry, I don’t write original male characters, to be put in position of position of responsibility for wondering if there are any. If there were plenty I wouldn’t be asking.

My general idea was, if there are any (since all my faves are jerks/have been sexist at least off handedly and I’ve made my peace with that and will admit they’re jerks), tell me about them? Rec me your not-jerks. And if like me, you can’t think of any and all your favourites are jerks, share where your line is/why you can put it aside to like them still.

Personally, I think I’m just so used to at least casual sexism and dickishness that it’s a base level for me now. I’m less a fan of the “Nice Guy” and more of a fan of the spade who knows he’s a spade. I find I’m more likely to judge the character though if I rewatch vs at the time or if canon starts painting their behaviour as acceptable.

Re: Tangent based on #1

[(Anonymous)]

I think this is going to end up in a lot of debate about whether characters are sexist or not and what constitutes enough sexism to be a jerk.

Here are some:

https://www.bustle.com/articles/99906-9-most-feminist-male-disney-characters-from-a-patriarchy-breaking-prince-to-a-truly-progressive-lion

https://www.romper.com/p/5-feminist-male-book-characters-who-are-all-about-gender-equality-7043

I guarantee someone is going to say one or all of these are sexist.

Re: Tangent based on #1

[(Anonymous)]

I guarantee someone is going to say one or all of these are sexist.

But I don't think that's an intrinsically worthless point to make or conversation to have, you know? If the debate is what constitutes being a jerk, and what should we just be willing to accept, there is validity to that debate.

Re: Tangent based on #1

[(Anonymous)]

Wait...it isn't "jerks who are not sexist" but you actually think there are no male characters who are not sexist??/?

Re: Tangent based on #1

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe they only watch edgy tv shows where sexism is an easy way to indicate grittiness?

Idk I thought it was a troll but they appear to be serious.

Re: Tangent based on #1

[(Anonymous)]

I can see where they're coming from. Not all male characters are intentionally/overtly sexist, but there's sexism (even if it's only mild sexism) in every canon, and that affects the way that the male characters treat female characters or how the audience perceives the actions of a supposedly feminist male character.

Re: Tangent based on #1

[(Anonymous)]

I think their point is more that like... even with characters that we think of as not being sexist, that judgment often involves overlooking small-scale or casual, but still real, moments of sexism or jerkishness

I don't know, it doesn't seem like a prima facie ridiculous topic of conversation to me. especially if we're talking about, for instance, main characters of well-established TV series. and if you think that it's a ridiculous question, the easiest way to prove it is by answering it, so

Re: Tangent based on #1

[(Anonymous)]

Spike from Buffy? I don't recall any sexism from him. BUt i've not watch the show in years.

Re: Tangent based on #1

[(Anonymous)]

Uhhhhhhhh

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Re: Tangent based on #1

[(Anonymous)]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh? He killed a lot of people but didn't seem to target women in particular.

Re: Tangent based on #1

[(Anonymous)]

Wasn't there that whole, you know, attempted rape thing

Re: Tangent based on #1

[(Anonymous)]

s5e14 (crush)

Re: Tangent based on #1

[agirlnamedtruth]

Even the ones already mentioned aside, his treatment of Harmony wasn’t exactly pleasant to rewatch as an adult, as someone who loved him as a teen. I know she was played as a joke and nobody took her seriously but I cheered when she shot him with that arrow and he looked so surprised, not that he’d been shot but in that he didn’t even remember she was there through all the other women he was pitying himself over/had chained up.

Re: Tangent based on #1

[(Anonymous)]

I mean, even if you discount the unsouled years (so... most of his existence), the way he pedestalized the female objects of his infatuation is also a form of sexism. And I say that as one of the biggest, most enduring fans of the character.

Re: Tangent based on #1

[(Anonymous)]

Kylo Ren. And no, I'm not trolling.

Re: Tangent based on #1

[(Anonymous)]

Well, don't really want to delve into that, but this does make me think that villains, unless they're specifically written to be sexist, are actually the most likely candidates for a spotless sexism record. Especially the rampant misanthropist ones -- they're just equal opportunity haters.

Re: Tangent based on #1

[(Anonymous)]

YES! Hannibal from the TV series is not a sexist jerk. He's just a murdering asshole.

I would also argue that Will (especially S1 Will, before he turns into a manipulative bastard) is also not a sexist jerk. He's just a quiet guy who would prefer to be left alone with his dogs.

Re: Tangent based on #1

[(Anonymous)]

I am so confused but interested by this thread.

Re: Tangent based on #1

[(Anonymous)]

Star Trek is full of them.