[ SECRET POST #4274 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4274 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 33 secrets from Secret Submission Post #612.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

02. https://abload.de/img/img_951192i2w.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

Impossible...hm. "Stop making these people slaves." "Nah."

[(Anonymous)]

Moses put Rameses on the spot in front of everyone. "You know I am a Hebrew, and the god of the Hebrews came to me... He commands that you let his people go." Rameses was already worried about being the "weak link" that would break his family's dynasty, there was no way he could just take an order like that.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, that justifies the slavery then. He was feeling inadequate.

[(Anonymous)]

Nah. Not really.

[(Anonymous)]

I can't remember if this ever came up in the movie, but Ramses would've also been a god incarnate, so... it's like, "You're god came to you to order me, another god, to do something. Uh huh."

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed. But that's because my ethics put family before almost everything and I'm not religious.
Hug already! *sigh*

[(Anonymous)]

Man, I haven't seen this movie in forever, but I remember it made me so freaking sad as a kid.

[(Anonymous)]

It's a shitty story that was a shitty idea for a kids' movie. Like, it's literally one of the most disgusting and morally bankrupt parables in an ancient religious text full of disgusting and morally bankrupt parables. I'm astounded that they thought this should be produced.

Hans Zimmer made it amazing, but it's amazing for the wrong reasons. The story is fucked up and I felt bad for Ramses, too. Slavery is bad. But so is mass-murdering innocent children.

[(Anonymous)]

mte. like, for adults, the complexity of the fabled relationship between the Egyptians and Hebrews could be an interesting movie (see: Ben Hur), but for kids? no way in hell. going the extra step to actually go with the Biblical account while trying to bury the Bible lead so that secular folks can still want to see the movie? super risky and difficult. given a lot of peoples' nostalgia for it I guess it succeeded in a musical and visual vein, but once you start picking the plot apart it starts to fail.

[(Anonymous)]

This so much.

[(Anonymous)]

The movie does want you to sympathize with Ramses at least some - he did care about Moses, and his son, but was also from a culture that enslaved Moses’ culture. Moses also cares about his brother, but freeing his people is more important. It’s certainly the most sympathetic version to Ramses I have seen.

Though - and idk if this is just in the movie, I’m not actually religious, but isn’t part of Ramses folly is that he was willing to let his people suffer through the plagues until it directly effected him? So there is that.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, yes. But Moses hurt his feelings.

[(Anonymous)]

In the Bible, it wasn't him letting his people suffer. It's that God decided to "harden Ramses' heart" to make a goddamn fucking point.

I agree with you and also with the other commenters

[(Anonymous)]

Hey, fellow person who apparently got into this movie at the same time I did! *wavewave* Have you been listening to the soundtrack nonstop? Because I have.

I think what some commenters might be misunderstanding (and maybe what you could have specified a bit better) is that someone can be a tragic villain while still being a bad person. So I kinda see both sides here. I mean...slavery. And letting his own people be tormented and killed by Old Testament God (who was a major dick when he wanted to be). It's the difference between reasons and excuses -- he sure had reasons to be the shitty person he was, but that didn't make it okay.

But it does also make me feel bad for Rameses (and Moses too, honestly, because I really liked their brotherly relationship and the whole thing could really have ended better but it was kinda doomed by how the Bible (and possibly history) said it went), and his whole "must be a strong leader no matter what and never give in" complex is understandable with his harsh dad and expectations as a ruler and all that.

tl;dr: I think we're meant to feel bad for him to an extent, and also it's nice to have a villain who's neither all sympathetic nor all evil.

[(Anonymous)]

-mutters and go grabs Scofield KJV- Okay, so God being a touchy feeley nice God is totally New Testament God. In the OT, God is judgey and jealous and all sorts of angry. There's a reason one of the first commandments is "have no other god before me."

So in Chapter 6, Moses tried speaking to the Hebrews, but they wouldn't listen, so he told God, hey how is Pharaoh going to listen if the Hebrews won't? (He's 80 years old, or fourscore, at this point. Cranky old guy.)So in Chapter 7, God goes, you talk to Pharaoh, and I'm going to harden his heart. And then I'm going to perform wonders and magic and show these Egyptians that I'm REAL. (This will also prove to the Hebrews that Moses knows what he's talking about.)

And so for the next 5 chapters, after every miracle, God hardened Pharaoh's heart, just as he said he would. Then on the 10th, Pharaoh LET THEM GO, then his heart hardened AGAIN and he chased the down to where Moses had to split the waters.

It, sadly, wouldn't have mattered how Moses approached Ramses. God intervened in order to show his power to both Egypt and the Hebrews. He was proving this point and in order to make the Hebrews grateful to Him, He did something horrible to the Egyptians. Though the Hebrews weren't immune to the prior 8 plagues.

It is the weirdest story to teach to children, especially after teaching them about Joseph and that mess. Then it goes on about the 10 commandments and the bull and forcing the Hebrews to basically drink gold imbued water and then their own version of genocide later. It's bonkers. Especially since it's taught as "truth" without any historical context. And the "moral lesson" that young kids are supposed to get out of this is "if God talks to you, do what he says. Obey him. Or else bad things happen." But hey, even if you DO obey him, bad things still can happen.

At least most churches skip... Job. Poor Job.

[(Anonymous)]

My church didn't skip Job and his story really fucked up kid me.

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you for pointing out that whole "God hardened Ramses' heart" thing because, in the movie, Ramses does it to himself and that's erasing a really fucked up aspect of Christianity.

[digitalghosts]

Job has been the favourite Bible part for my Polish professor and he used it as a sample of how God should be always most important - "Job survived all that crap and you kids refuse to obey!? You and all those other heathens are shitty!". Needless to say, he also loved Abraham forced to almost kill his son ... and Song of All Songs which was absolutely not porn to him and boobs were "mountains of Israel".

[(Anonymous)]

pretty sure Ramses was the one that called in the last plague of the first born on his own head by deciding to do it to the slaves first. And I thought the way it was handled - so sad, so soft, the hush whisper of escaping breath as innocents died and the mournfully carry of it instead of the 'angry vengeance of a hard God' was well done too. That was the whole point though. That it was a sucky sucky place for both of the brother to be stuck in and yet it was something both of them felt they had no choice but to follow to the end. I thought Prince of Egypt handled it so much better and with more human emotion than any other version I've seen before. Kids aren't stupid. They feel these things and they get them when they see them in movies. And the amount of work the team did to be sure they included Muslim, Christian and Jewish people in the storytelling process was amazing. Its not necessarily a comfortable story to tell but if you're going to tell it, I thought Prince of Egypt did it well without shying away or glossing over the human element of it.

[(Anonymous)]

You mean the thing he said because he was angry because Moses kept scaring and hurting his family and his people and undermining his authority, but we saw no measures made to actually do?

[(Anonymous)]

I feel you, OP.

[(Anonymous)]

I read somewhere that the historical Ramses was actually quite a good guy (ofc you can't have modern moral standarts for historical people so there is always *something) and have been feeling bad for him ever since. He basically got the villain edit in this fanfic.

[(Anonymous)]

I want to point out that the historical Rameses didn't just get a 'villain edit'. The historical Rameses had no real relationship to this story. The Exodus narrative is pretty much entirely mythical, and there's no strong evidence to suggest that the Jews (as a people) were ever slaves in Egypt in the first place.

;;

[(Anonymous)]

This is the truest goddamn secret I've seen in a while...
To Rameses, Moses was always his brother, and for him to return and condemn him for something Moses allowed all the same when he was son of the Pharaoh broke him more than he ever thought possible. It was something Rameses couldn't understand...

I want so much to get into the details of this, but I just simply wont't due to the religious influence that as many of the comments have said already- that shit's too complicated to convey;;

I adore the movie imaged here, and I know the story, and I will say that you are absolutely right.