[ SECRET POST #689 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #689 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.


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[Naruto]


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[Outlaw Star]


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150. [repeat]


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166.
[TV Tropes, Code Geass]


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168.
[Ace Attorney, Trauma Center]



Notes:

CITY STUFF → http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com/

Secrets Left to Post: 13 pages, 316 secrets from Secret Submission Post #099.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ], [ 1 - personal attack ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[xanykaos.livejournal.com]

101. Then build a dirt castle!


103. Yeah, I think I did too.


104. Y'know, I think that just because people don't like a ship like Doctor/Donna or Doctor/Martha it doesn't mean that they hate any ship that isn't the Doctor and Rose. I'm a Doctor/Rose shipper, and I ship plenty more with the good Doctor. Just not those first two, because I don't see the characters working like that.
...
Also, I think 10 is alternately scare-of/intruiged-by sex, but ultimately kind of grossed out by squishy humans.


110. 0.0 OMIGHOSH THANK YOU!!! I keep thinking I'm the only one who absolutely hates Sean. I mean, as a trickster-rubber-face, yeah, he's fun, but after awhile, I just had to stop watching because he gets away with everything and Gus just takes it. I think it was the Comic Convention episode that did it for me. It's like, if there's anything that Gus really really likes and Sean doesn't even care about, Sean will succeed with it, and Gus will get the table scraps.

They're not cute. They're tragic. And Sean needs to eventually get beat up by someone. Like, traction kind of beat-up.


127. Yes. It is mean-spirited. Going by the show alone (not interviews, not fandom), Zuko/Katara was plenty plausible. I think anyone who considers people who had a different opinion on an outcome "delusional" or whatever are just being dicks.


132. Please tell me it's fake.


147. Batman Beyond always makes me sad because you realise that, in the DCAU at least, Batman ended up crazy and alone. No Selina, no Diana.


165. Um. Tackyclothes-hawt what's it from?


167. Nicely done secret. Painful and true.

[(Anonymous)]

127. I'm curious how you came to that conclusion when Katara and Zuko hadn't spent more than ten minutes together at a stretch until the S2 finale and with Katara not being on speaking terms with Zuko until 3.16.

[xanykaos.livejournal.com]

Oh for pity's sake. Everyone has to be so freaking smugity-smug smug about it.

Look, the first thing I ever saw of Avatar was the necklace scene. Maybe that had me at a bias.

I figured it was plausible that they'd go with the "opposite elements" thing, that it would be believable for the story in The Cave of Two Lovers to have been minor foreshadowing, that it was possibly significant that the persona Zuko created when he first struck out against the Fire Nation was Water Tribe colors, that it was cute that the bounty-hunter refered to Katara as Zuko's girlfriend, and that, hey, I've seen not-so-villianous antagonist switch sides and fall in love with a heroine. I thought that even their minor, antagonistic interaction really snapped. And I thought it would be interesting and not completely out-of-left-field if instead of the hero getting the first girl he saw (classic first-guy-gets-the-girl), for the girl to go with someone else.

There have been plenty of believeable romances in shows/books/comics/etc introduced late in the game. I mean, for pity's sake, Mai didn't have more than five minutes interaction with Zuko until the third season either.

sameanon

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, the necklace scene will color your perception if that's your introduction to the series, I will admit that.

But they still didn't interact but for a total of five minutes screentime or less until 3-14. Introducing a new romantic subplot that late in the game would have weakened the narrative overall.

Mai also proceeded to spend most of the third season making out with Zuko. Katara spent all but four episodes' worth of time sniping or, perhaps most memorably, that one time she threatened to kill him.


(I ship Zutara myself! I do! I LIKE their dynamic! It's just really damned obvious that they were never ever ever going to be a canon couple from the outset, otherwise he would have had to have changed sides early enough to allow it to happen. And he didn't; frankly, I'm glad he didn't - it made Zuko's redemption arc that much more compelling.)

127

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

Keep telling yourself that.

Re: 127

[xanykaos.livejournal.com]

Keep telling myself what? That it's rude to mock people for their chosen ships and think that they're foolish? Please. Everyone talks about the rabid ship-wars (soooo glad f!s is my only exposure to online Avatar fandom), but from what I see, it's the victorious Kataangers who are just plain behaving badly. Even the R/Hr shippers weren't quite so...superior.

Re: 127

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

Keep telling yourself that it was plausible and you are omgsoopressed.

Protip: I don't ship.

Re: 127

[ali-wildgoose.livejournal.com]

Not commenting on anything specific here, but just in general...

I agree with a lot of the things you're saying, but I really wish you'd take a second to find a way to say them that wasn't so....angry? Aggressive?

I've been in Avatar fandom a long time, and I know how ugly things got. I know how badly the Zuko/Katara shippers behaved as a group. I know how Zutara seemed to overwhelm every single conversation anyone tried to have about the show.

But a lot of new people are coming in, and a lot of old people have left, or walled themselves off so thoroughly that they may as well have. And I just...you know. It seems like a good time to try and clean the slate. Even if other people are rude, further rudeness doesn't really help anything. It just makes the overall atmosphere that much more unpleasant.

127 OP

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sorry, I have nothing against people who enjoy the ship, but I will never, ever be able to wrap my brain around people who could watch the entire show and still think that it was obviously aiming for a Zutara ending. I mean, up until the end of the second season, there wasn't even a scrap of evidence that they had any opinion of each other besides "jerk who stands in the way of my capturing/protecting Aang."

If you could watch the whole show (not isolated clips from the S2 finale or near the S3 finale) and come away thinking, "Boy, Zutara's totally what they're going for, I feel sorry for those deluded Kataang sheeple," you were paying a hell of a lot more attention to Zutara fandom and bad romance in pop culture than to the show itself.

Re: 127 OP

[xanykaos.livejournal.com]

Well, considering that I didn't even participate in fandom...

I didn't say "obvious" or anything like that. There is a huge difference in believing "Hey, maybe they're gonna go for this! Oh man, it's working!" and saying "Well, obviously, they're totally going for Zutara."

As far as I could tell in Avatar, very little was "obvious" because it was a well-written show. But see, your attitude, at least in the post, was one of "It was so obvious it was going to be Aang/Katara."

No. It was obvious that Aang liked Katara. As far as I could tell while watching, there wasn't even a sign that Katara might possibly reciprocate those feeling until the kiss, with the exception of the Cave of Two Lovers, which was just a comedy of errors (and with the Two Lovers being people from two warring nations, represented by blue and red, hey, those of us looking saw it as possible foreshadowing).

The whole reason I thought that it might end in Zutara was because, as far as I could tell, Avatar avoided the obvious--the HSQ for the Season 2 finale was through the roof.

Re: 127 OP

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

Yes, it really was obvious that it was going to be Aang and Katara.

And either way, it was obvious that it wasn't going to be Zuko and Katara. If your argument is that we don't know whether or not Katara had genuine feelings for Aang, then you have to concede that point at least, since there's never any indication that Zuko or Katara might have feelings for anyone but Aang and Mai.

Re: 127 OP

[fenm.livejournal.com]

there wasn't even a sign that Katara might possibly reciprocate those feeling until the kiss

Re-watch "The Fortune Teller". That was season one.

127 OP

[(Anonymous)]

But see, your attitude, at least in the post, was one of "It was so obvious it was going to be Aang/Katara."

Projecting, much? The only "attitude" in my secret, which most people seem to have gotten, is that it was obvious that Zuko/Katara was one hell of a long shot and it was dumb to be completely convinced of it.

Of course, as someone who is not a big fan of the pairing or anything, just of the show itself, I do think it was obvious it was going to be Aang/Katara, and I am not really sure why so much of fandom was determined to resist it. But that's a story for another day.

I didn't say "obvious" or anything like that. There is a huge difference in believing "Hey, maybe they're gonna go for this! Oh man, it's working!" and saying "Well, obviously, they're totally going for Zutara."

So why were you so peeved at my secret? I didn't say that people convinced McCain/Palin were going to win reminded me of Zutara shippers who thought it might happen (although I still think that was pretty silly). I said they reminded me of Zutara shippers who were convinced it was going to happen. Who did exist. Most of the rest of the commenters seem to have caught that distinction.

The similarity isn't "these people both disagree with me, whether fandom-wise or politically, ha ha let's mock them!" The similarity is "these particular two groups of people had both locked themselves into an echo chamber where they ignored all reasonable facts and instead built and clung to a narrative that resembled neither canon nor reality."

The reason that I admit that the thoughts in the secret were mean-spirited isn't that I think it's meeeeean to say that anyone who seriously thought that the secret truth of the show was Zutaaaraaaa was deluding themselves. I just feel somewhat bad about comparing fellow members of fandom to people who supported taking away the rights of human beings and continuing to drive my country into ruin.

But I'll be honest here. I sniped at your comment, and I'd be willing to bet so did some of the others, because I am tremendously sick and tired of non-canon shippers of various stripes nursing a martyr complex over how bawwww, those no-good canon shippers are mean to them for making fun of their crazier shipmates. Never mind that most of the people doing the fun-making aren't even "canon shippers," they're just people who enjoyed the show and boggle at the craziness spouted by the more extreme non-canon shippers.

Re: 127 OP

[strange_quark]

I don't know about obvious, but I thought it was possible. It wouldn't have been the first time a show or book started off with two characters who hated each other, learned more about each other and realized they weren't so different, and a delayed romance developed. There was a point past which it became implausible, true. But I didn't feel that way until somewhere in s3.

My biggest problem with this secret is that you seem to think that anyone who saw things a little different is an idiot (and one would have to have been an idiot to think McCain had a chance of winning, by the end of things), which is mean-spirited and wholly unfair. There are plenty of intelligent people in the Katara/Zuko fandom.

127

[justaminuet.livejournal.com]

Plenty plausable how? They had almost no positive interection with each other until the last four episodes of the entire series. Aang had already made the ship put one foot into the grave during "Day of the Black Sun (Part One)," and Mai pretty much shoved the other one in there at the end of "The Boiling Rock (Part Two)." And, if they didn't do it, Zuko and Katara themselves were doing a damned fine job of it themselves. Particularly Katara, who hated him so much until the near end, she probably would've spat him if she weren't so ladylike. There's no plausibility there.

Re: 127

[xanykaos.livejournal.com]

Did anyone actually get the point of my initial comment, or do Kataangers love to just scroll through comments and snipe the crap out of anyone who was ever a Zutara fan.

Relationships don't always develop in an obvious way. I've always been a fan of the ones that come about unexpectedly. (I also like that--and I don't know if it's the case here--so many Kataangers were R/Hr shippers and still bring up how Zuko and Katara were enemies, given that R/Hr, among many other canon-ships, involved two characters who basically spit fire at each other until finally getting together).

"The Boiling Rock" hammered it closed, I'll admit. Before that...eh, I was still hoping. Aang's kiss didn't seem to get the desired reaction.

But golly-gee, someone (hundreds of someones, apparently) had a different interpretation of a fictional story than you did...guess that gives everyone leave to mock us then.

127

[fenm.livejournal.com]

127: Zuko/Katara was plenty plausible

No, not really. By the time Katara even tolerated Zuko enough to be in the same room with him, she and Aang were already well on their way to being a couple. And Zuko and Mai were DEFINITELY a couple before Zuko joined the Gaang.

Re: 127

[xanykaos.livejournal.com]

I still can't accept Zuko/Mai because of how Mai was all throughout season 2. You can either be a well-rounded character, or you can be a flat cardboard cut-out who doesn't care if anyone around you lives or dies. You can't be both. That said, the end of it was sweet.

But honestly, this whole "Katara hated him!"...and how many canon ships started with two characters that hated each other? I mean, really.

But I love that that's the oooone thing in the comment that everyone's focused on. Yes, yes, you were all right. We know. It was Aang/Katara. Good for you. Means everyone else's opinions and thoughts were laughable then (for pity's sake, the writers put in ship-teases on purpose. Even though they were going for Aang/Katara, they added plenty of Zuko/Katara fanservice).

165

[mistressminako.livejournal.com]

Nicolae, jerkass NPC from Gaia's MMO (page is from the accompanying comic)

[(Anonymous)]

Hey there, I'm not in Avatar fandom at all but I'm amazed at all the people in this thread freaking out because someone thinks a particular pairing was plausible. Sorry you're getting jumped on.

[(Anonymous)]

THIS. Wtf, Avatar fandom is serious business, lol.

[xanykaos.livejournal.com]

Thanks. In retrospect, I shouldn't've responded, there was no way it couldn't've ended in wank.
I now know the consequences of making a shipping comment in a public forum.

[ocelotish]

Just in case you'll see this, that's what I find to be the most prominent problem here; usually in fandom there are debates, but you're free to go off doing your own thing so long as you aren't hurting other people. This jumping in seems to be like commenting about how much you hate a pairing someone drew, it doesn't help and only incites people. :/ I really don't know why everyone has to insist that their ship is 'better'; it's all personal preference.

[possessedpink.livejournal.com]

http://www.gaiaonline.com/

He is a new shop keeper for gaia's new mmo.

And yes, everyone wants to tap dat ;D ~

I would ignore mistressminako's "jackass" comment
O_o she's just angry about not having money, lawl.

[yui-hime.livejournal.com]

I'm going to challenge your rebuttal of mistressminako's "jackass" comment, because he is. Nicu's a con artist and makes a living by ripping off gullible people, which IMHO is a very jackass-y thing to do.

That does not stop the hawt. *appreciative glance, innuendo*

And hey, it's not like Gaia hasn't done the "incredibly attractive jackass character" thing before. Remember Liam?