[ SECRET POST #5052 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5052 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 18 secrets from Secret Submission Post #723.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

02. https://i.imgur.com/VrslxNy.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

I don't agree. First of all, it's not clear to me that paid fan content is a threat to non-paid fan content. I'm not a lawyer but it seems to me that they would have different legal statuses. Second, copyright law is unfathomably stupid and badly administered, and should be followed only to the extent that it's prudent and necessary to do so. And third, fuck off with your "just get a job" shit.

[(Anonymous)]

I was with you until that last part of the secret; seemed very old man shakes at clouds of you.

[(Anonymous)]

Actually completely agree with you.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm an old, so people making money of fanart and fic feels wrong to me and I wouldn't personally pay for any of it, but I'm not gonna stop anybody from spending their money however they want. I dunno how people doing this will lead to fandom getting fucked over though.

[anarchicq]

I agree whole-heartedly with what you said, but you don't have to be such a dick about it.

[(Anonymous)]

I just don't understand how do copyright holders suffer from people getting a couple of bucks for drawing fanart. Fanart is already there, I mean. If someone gets money while drawing it, what's the fucking damage? If your issue is with the corporates getting offended over it and fucking with the fandom as the result, then I think your indignation is a biiit misdirected.

[(Anonymous)]

I honestly don't know where I fall in this fight tbh. I'm an old enough fandomer that the idea of making money off fic is weird, but as someone who's also been to cons and bought fanart or plushies or doujinshi from the artist's alley, I apparently have weird double standards?

Honestly though, with maybe the exception of very very small medias or a very fucking prolific artist/etc, it's not like them making money off of it is hurting the source in the slightest.

But yeah that last comment... eurgh, no. As someone who's pretty damn neurotypical so probably shouldn't talk for someone who's neurodivergent, there's a huge fucking difference between 'real' jobs of any flavour and being able to be alone and write at your own pace.

[(Anonymous)]

Eat shit, ableist scum.

[(Anonymous)]

Fuck copyright. Creative works should be public domain. You put it out there and it's fair game for anyone to do with what they want, even make money off of it.

[(Anonymous)]

Agree.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with most of this, but you don't have to be such a dick about it. Also, your last sentence gets a no from me. The ability to write a large volume of fanfic quickly does not equal a marketable skill.

Do some people use fandom as an unhealthy coping mechanism, pouring their time and focus into it while letting things in their real life go un-attended to? Yes. I would know.

But withdrawing from meatspace responsibilities and over-relying on fandom for comfort, distraction, and escape is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. If that person were to quit fandom cold-turkey, they wouldn't suddenly be like, "Wow, I'm a healthy, well-rounded person who can totally deal with all the bullshit now!" They'd mostly be the same struggling person, but without their coping mechanism.

[(Anonymous)]

I disagree with your last sentence but as another fandom old I do find it uncomfortable how many people I see out there with virtual storefronts full of fanmade pins, keychains, jewelry, etc of copyrighted work. Some of it is really neat and creative but at the same time I admit there's a part of me wondering how long it will be until the actual copyright owners start cracking down (especially in fandoms like Pokemon or Animal Crossing, or anything Disney-owned).

[(Anonymous)]

(cozy werewolf anon)

You had me in the first half. Then you put in the last line.

Look, as an indie author and a fan author, these two things are NOT the same. It is much more difficult to write original fiction because it requires more/different parts of your brain than writing fan fiction. Just because someone can write 10K words of fan fiction a week doesn't mean that will translate to original fiction or any type of job setting.

I can write 10K words a day sometimes. (I worked hard to get to that point.) My brain is exhausted afterwards. It's WORK. And that's usually if I have a solid plan. (I am a plotter.) And it is NOTHING like working an 8 hour shift of answering phones/billing clients/doing accounting/costing parts/other office tasks. Zilch. You can't equate them.

Copyright/Trademarks is a messy issue. Most authors/creators don't bother to take the time to understand it properly even thought it's part of their job. Lawyers don't always get it.

Trad Authors tend to look for direct plagiarism. (We copy-pasted your book and changed the names.) For fan art, it's not copyright big corporations are often worried about it's Trademarks and "Can this be mistaken for official content." This can be an issue to with books.

If you wrote a book using the characters/ideas in my series and mimicked my covers and put it online, I'd be going after you because it could be MISTAKEN for something written by me. So, not only are you stealing my ideas and infringing on my 'trademark' so to speak, you're trying to take my customers. Theft is theft. (Don't bother. I don't have many.)

Look, come up with your own characters and ideas for fairy tale retellings or biker werewolf novels. I can't copyright those basic ideas. My fully formed books though with named characters and settings and the way the covers look are copyrighted!

When authors/corps go after copyright/trademark infringement, it's to protect themselves and their ability to make a living. And in the case of trademarks, their ability to KEEP ownership of that trademark. They don't have a choice. It's either file claim or LOSE the trademark.

This is why Cassie Claire and Sherilyn Kenyon got into it. And why Twilight and 50 Shades DIDN'T.

This isn't really about the secret, but hey the more you know. I kind of feel like the last line was a troll addition to spark controversy. Well done, I guess.

[(Anonymous)]

I completely agree with this. I will say that creating and distributing physical artwork/stories (like doujinshi) does cost money so charging for it isn't that bad. But charging for fic/fanart is so stupid and absolutely detrimental to fandom as a whole. (quality of said fic as well since despite the monetary encouragement the aspect of churning out fic like clockwork takes so much of the creativity and heart out of it)

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed so hard, even the last bit.

[(Anonymous)]

No real opinion but oh my God people have fucking feelings about this.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it depends. I think that offering commissions, for example, is fine, because the person is paying for the artist's time and effort, which is the same whether they're paying the artist to draw their D&D character or Wonder Woman. They're paying the artist to put in the time and effort to draw something for their own personal enjoyment.

But making prints of fanart and selling them? Get out of here with that shit.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, go out and get a "real" job in the middle of a pandemic where people are losing jobs daily and at a time where the landscape is changing so that you can make millions just staying at home and making tiktoks. Things change, grandpa, I would dare argue it's far less demeaning to do shit like Onlyfans than it is to work 9-5 labor where you get paid zilch.

[meadowphoenix]

IP law is such an interesting creation to me, because it absolutely has to do with a certain type of capitalism, and was straight up not how art was understood even at the beginning of the 18th century.

anyway, I think this is an issue of value system. if you think you should follow the law and avoid pecuniary harm, then yea making money off selling derivative stuff that is insufficiently derivative is not great don't do it. but imo any harm in general to derivative work is going to be from the corporations you so insist is distinctly gray because they have the money to fight even when they're wrong.

there are philosophical concerns I have with the distinction between defendable IP and derivations of the same (mainly that the issue is abstract in nature and involves social cohesion that the law is not equipped to regulate), but I assure you that prohibitions against money is to make suits easier on AO3 (it's much easier to show harm when you can point to numbers). It's not because you can't make money for derivative work or even that it is ethically shitty to do so, if the work is sufficiently derivative.

[(Anonymous)]

Since doujinshi don't interfere with the original creators income stream, they aren't illegal in Japan (unless the copyright holder makes a complaint). They actually help the manga industry too, as a lot of manga artists get their start drawing doujinshi.

[(Anonymous)]

Like, I can understand the worry, but don't agree.

I mean, don't you think that if corporations cared, they would already have done something about it? It's not really hard for them, no pass-time fan-creator would be able to go againt them. The artist who sold it to corporations is already being paid either way regardeless of what fan artists do. And it's been happening long anough that it's obvious they don't care. (Zines go a long time, even slash ship zines.)

I can understant if you point at fandoms of indie origin, but what would be your thoughs of said idie creators being totally okay with it? Like the dude who made Undertale (If I remenber right), the one who made FNAF... The actual crator from OK.KO(Though not indie) shared a fan stored with pins and everything. There's also the guy from Mystery Skulls Animated(Check his faq)... One of the writters of Hanniball(Also not Indie) buying from fan stores... idk, if they are fine with it what would be the problem?

Also... yeah, you last point was... bad. Not that this is the main reason I'm not fully with you, but common, don't embarass people who are by being ableist. Not everyone who agrees with you is themselfs.

[(Anonymous)]

As a consumer of the goods for sale by fans, fuck off. I make and sell products myself too, even though I have a plenty good day job. I don't do this to make bank. It would never pay enough. I do it because fans like me LIKE TO COLLECT THIS SHIT. 8D

I try to buy extra copies of the series I like, the merch they make, etc, but at the end of the day, doujinshi and fan merch is my favorite thing to collect and makes me the happiest. The real companies aren't losing a dime from me because if anything, I buy extra to support them.

Stay mad.

[(Anonymous)]

This. Thank you. I agree.

[epicurean]

I respectfuly disagree.

People can sell their art and fic and others are free to give them money. I used to be anal about this but realized if companies wanted to do something about this, they would have put a cease and desist on it a long time ago. 'Sides they get free publicity from fan products, being fanfriendly, which in return means more cash to their pockets since they earn fan loyalty and people are more willing to spend on official products.

Think of Anne Rice, she said she didn't want people making fic of her books and people (for the most part) stopped.

if your Oh Poor Neuro-Atypical Me ass can churn out 10,00 words of fic a week, every week, for months, you are capable of holding down an ACTUAL JOB
Not every company hires neuroatypical people for jobs. And highstress level jobs can be detrimetal for people's mental health. Also depends on your definition of a REAL JOB.