[ SECRET POST #5888 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5888 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 41 secrets from Secret Submission Post #843.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

03. https://i.imgur.com/0ZrpG73.png

[(Anonymous)]

As much as I hate the man, I don't think it's entirely Musk's fault.
I think that there are more interests in investing in electric cars than in hydrogen cars right not.
The problem is how the governments are going to spend the least money at the moment and how the supply chain will be commanded now and in the future (wars,commercial partners etc). Right now the "best" solutions for them seems to be Electric cars.
Governments and lobbies' interests are almost always not linked to the most reasonable clean solution, if there is a lot of money to be invested. The world sucks.

I'm not American, though. My personal POV and the politics regarding electric cars where I live are very different than yours, I suppose?
Maybe over there it's really Musk's fault. IDK. Here I don't think he had such a huge impact overall.

BTW personally I'm all for hydrogen cars. They're objectively way better and electric cars.
My ultimate dream is that in the future private cars will not be necessary, but everyone will be able to conformably go almost everywhere with clean public transport.
A girl can dream...

[(Anonymous)]

Why are hydrogen cars better than electric cars?

[(Anonymous)]

Wild guess: Electricity is still mostly a "dirty" energy, coming from sources like coal and wood.

Fuck Elon Musk with a cactus

[(Anonymous)]

What's best for the world at large is a free, robust, rapid, inter- and intra-city public transit system. Individual transit, like cars, are going to be second to that no matter what the fuel is.

Elon killed a proposal for a train transit system with his stupid hyperloop that never got built.

Re: Fuck Elon Musk with a cactus

[(Anonymous)]

No public transport system, short of a Star Trek style transporter, will ever be able to provide the same level of flexibility and personal freedom that cars will. It simply is not possible, the spoke and hub vs point to point nature of the two systems means that public transport will always be second best. So the best thing is to make cars as clean and green as is possible.

Re: Fuck Elon Musk with a cactus

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT I think a lot of people who think it has to be one or the other (so of course it should be the best public transit) forget about large footprint countries (Canada, Australia, Russia, etc) where it's impossible outside of core cities to not NOT have a car. Even if I would efficiently use transit to get to work, it's a 2 hour drive (in good traffic) to get to my parents'. I wouldn't give up my car.

Re: Fuck Elon Musk with a cactus

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT

Even then, there are a lot of 2-hour drives that could be replaced by reliable inter-city train service.

Not *all* of them obviously, especially in more remote rural areas. But a lot of them!

Re: Fuck Elon Musk with a cactus

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT

one, nonny didn't say ban all car trips, they said make them secondary to public transit. there are a lot of car trips that could be accomplished with public transit instead if public transit was pervasive and well-designed and reliable, and if cities were designed around limiting unnecessary driving.

two, obviously public transit is always going to be spoke-and-hub to *some* extent, there's never going to be door-to-door public transit, but you can limit that significantly with good design.

Re: Fuck Elon Musk with a cactus

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Who said anything about flexibility and personal freedom? The secret mentioned what was best for the world at large. What is best for the world at large is to reduce the amount of cars on the road, whatever the fuel, to the bare minimum. You do this with public transit.

Public transit may be second best to people who think their personal freedom overrides the needs of the rest of the population, but I don't really care what they think. 'Cause they're wrong.

Re: Fuck Elon Musk with a cactus

[(Anonymous)]

In large cities you absolutely could build a public transport system where public transport is preferably to cars. I've lived in cities like that.

And it's also possible to offer inter-city travel like that. But it requires planning and effort and more buy-in than most municipal and state governments seem to be willing to give.

Re: Fuck Elon Musk with a cactus

[(Anonymous)]

"free, robust, rapid"

This is kinda like the "cheap, fast, good" rule - you can have at max 2 of those.

Re: Fuck Elon Musk with a cactus

[(Anonymous)]

I don't see why that's true (although I also think that having public transit be free isn't actually necessary or valuable, it makes more sense to charge a small ticket price and then if you want to give people discounted or free passes you can do that)

Re: Fuck Elon Musk with a cactus

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Free is shorthand for free at the point of use. Like universal healthcare, we should have universal transit paid for by taxes. And just like universal healthcare, when you have central planning and large resources it becomes more efficient, equal, and actually cheaper in real dollars in the long run. Washington DC will be implementing it on a city wide scale this summer. The hard part is getting around the people who think riding the bus is for losers.

Re: Fuck Elon Musk with a cactus

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed - but it would be best if that team on renewable energy. Which still brings us back to the secret's argument over what fuel tech would be best

Re: Fuck Elon Musk with a cactus

[(Anonymous)]

I have nothing to add to this comment. I just wanted to make the title repeat.

Re: Fuck Elon Musk with a cactus

[(Anonymous)]

Valid

Re: Fuck Elon Musk with a cactus

[(Anonymous)]

I don't drive, my city has a wonderful transit system, I use trains and buses and occasional taxi to go out of city, but still no, we can't take out cars from this conversation. Individual transport is still faster and is needed for a lot of groups (people with small children, people with disabilities etc). Some people are just not going to ride with "other icky peasants". Also rural areas and vast countries are a thing.
So we can't take out cars from eco conversation even though I am all for public transport and I believe that USA's politic about cars is just evil.

[(Anonymous)]

I had no idea about this and will now look into this!

My biggest issue with EV cars is the minerals used to power the batteries. They're a finite resource, mining for them causes environmental damage (not to mention for the people involved in extraction and living in those environments) and when they're done and junked, people and the environment get screwed again. I know this goes on for cellphones and laptops, and pretty much every tech commodity we have now. Does anyone more knowledgeable than me know of an alternative?

[(Anonymous)]

There are non lithium ion batteries that are less resource mining heavy and are recyclable/ rechargable after they wear out. They essentially just arent known to the public like LI batteries are, so get overlooked by basically everyone when developing compatible infrastructure. They need better PR, basically

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not up on car technology (minus knowing what the anon below mentioned about the mineral mining needed for electric batteries being a finite and not great resource), but whenever I think of hydrogen vehicles I think of the Hindenburg, so I hope it's become a safer idea since then?

[(Anonymous)]

I'm also not an expert, but some of the data suggests there would be about the same risk of fire/explosion as there is for a car running on gasoline.

Ironically, that would mean significantly less fire risk in a hydrogen-fueled car than in a Tesla.

[(Anonymous)]

Interesting, thank you! I do agree with anon up thread that ideally the goal would be better transit, but I also know that capitalism rules a lot and there isn't the same money grab with great public transit as there is with encouraging private vehicle ownership.

[(Anonymous)]

My understanding is

- Lithium ion batteries have captured the market because they're the type of battery the largest amount of people understand. There are various different battery technologies (not just hydrogen fuel) that you can argue have been sidelined for investment in compatibility with lithoum ion batteries.

- However, many of those battery technologies, including hydrogen fuel, are not mature enough for the market. Lithium ion was mature and ready to go.

- At some point one clean technology has to be chosen over another, because having competing fuel infrastructure is super inefficient and will end badly for the consumer/ lead to more people staying with ICE cars in the long run because of fuel reliability (think of it like the issue of vhs vs betamax or blue ray vs high definition discs, but on a national infrastructure level where the players were communal pump stations).

- Lithium ion has its problems but is still better than ICE, and building the electric car national fuelling infrastructure will allow/incentivise the development/maturing of other cleaner electric batteries that are compatible with it.

- The electric car market is still maturing itself, so in the future we will likely see improved and cheaper mod technologies for existing cars to convert them to electric or at least hybrid/ PHEV, and also better technology for replacing LI batteries as they wear out.

Re: Elon, he didn't do shit to do shit to develop the tech. He just heavily invested in Tesla, and I'm not gonna he mad at him for investing in a clean car tech company that was mature enough for investment on his scale.

[tabaqui]

I agree. Elon is a fucking man-baby asshat who is using his money and his ego to fuck over a lot of things, our planet included. I wish his spaceship crap WOULD work, and that he'd be the first man to live (and die) on fucking Mars.

I remember reading about hydrogen fuel cells years ago, and being totally amazed - byproduct is clean water!! - and forever after just wondering wtf happened and why I can't have one to run my house.