[ SECRET POST #5961 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5961 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 18 secrets from Secret Submission Post #852.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

04. https://i.imgur.com/AsqxcQ7.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

hoteps be hoteppin

the sad part is I'd so be down for a fictional historical drama with a black cleopatra in it

but this is just proving americans imposing their racial issues all over the rest of the world isn't limited to the white ones :(

[(Anonymous)]

Fucking incredible to come up with a way to criticize making Cleopatra black that I don't agree with

[(Anonymous)]

ok

like, the actual people in Egypt are saying this, so

you do you

[(Anonymous)]

"I remember my grandmother telling me, I don't care what they teach you in school, Cleopatra was black."
fuck schools.

[(Anonymous)]

Except no. I absolutely believe that some of the pharoahs were black. Maybe Hatshepsut for example. But Cleopatra was Greek.

[(Anonymous)]

DA. Yeah, Cleopatra being Greek is pretty well documented.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, and trying to claim that she was black is also erasing the fact that she was very likely at least partially Iranian/Persian on her mother's side. So it isn't even like there wasn't a high probability that she was POC! Just not black.

[(Anonymous)]

There were in fact whole Nubian dynasties and also other pharaos who were likely black, but yep, Cleo is kinda one of the few where we know she wasn't.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, the grandmother in this scenario is dumb as fuck because Cleopatra was Greek. Famously.

Stay in school, kids.

[(Anonymous)]

Less fuck schools and more fuck a considerable body of contemporary proof. But hey, why let that stand in the way of ideological bullshit.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, though to be fair under racist US rules on who is and isn't Black, Cleopatra probably did have at least a little Nubian ancestry via her father, which in the US in many times would make her Black. Mostly Macedonian and probably some Persian, but who is and isn't Black in the US is fucking complicated and specific and it's a show made in the US.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Anon, unless you're going by neo-Nazi ancestry-obsessiveness over who is and isn't black, someone whose skin looks white generally does not count. And someone dark-skinned does. Yes, that's technically colorism as opposed to strictly racism, and reaps all the false positives and negatives inherent in squashing those two concepts together. But most humans in the US don't insist on looking at pictures of your two parents and four grandparents before making assumptions about your race. Promise. They look at your face, your hair, your clothes, and how you talk. And whichever other clues happen to be around. That can be plenty destructive and hurtful enough, but it generally isn't deep or complicated.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I do believe this to be true. Which is why, and I say this as an European, the discourse on "racism", ethnicity and xenophobia is very different in EU and USA.
Or, it SHOULD be, but online it's a mess and some people (both European themselves and Americans) use US parameters to discuss xenophobia in European countries and NAH. WHAT?!

[meadowphoenix]

i just think this is particularly funny because we know what she looked like, like her coins do not dissemble at ALL. whatever color you make her, can you find an actress who looks like barbara bush and then demonstrate how wildly charming she was? then i'll be impressed.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not making sense of most of the fierce arguing going on upthread.

But assuming what you're saying is that this show (and Netflix) is flagrantly disregarding what we know about a historical person to make hay with the current political sensibilities in the US ... that's about the conclusion I was drawing from the picture. That, and that they evidently got no budget for, say, costume design in the interest of making it look like she has sculpted gold on her head as opposed to spray-painted cardboard. Which doesn't recommend the quality of actors/actresses they could afford to hire, either.

[(Anonymous)]

I don’t really care about any of the discourse, and I would definitely be down for a portrayal of Cleopatra as black if the work doing so was meant to be fictional and against reality. But the problem with this one is that it’s supposed to be a documentary. And what Cleopatra actually looked like, which isn’t unknown to people at all, goes against what they’re ostensibly saying is supposed to be an accurate portrayal. This isn’t someone who’s appearance can only be speculated, it’s known that Cleopatra wasn’t black. Even though there’s apparently a lot of people who think she was?

[(Anonymous)]

YEAH. +1

Since this is framed as a documentary, making Cleopatra of Sub-Saharan African ancestry is actually misinformation.
I have no words. It's that simple. There shouldn't be any controversy. This is simply misinformation because we know as a fact that Cleopatra wasn't "black".

(I'm fine with whatever when it's FICTION, but in documentaries? No no.
It'd be very interesting a documentary on WHY some black people want Cleopatra, out of all historical figures, to be black. It's fascinating.)

[(Anonymous)]

What I never understand about these things is why black people (black Americans in particular) try to claim famous historical people even though they weren't black (I still remember that weirdly racist "Beethoven was totally black" thing) instead of promoting actually black historical figures that get far too little attention.

[(Anonymous)]

Same. It's not as if there weren't actual historical African queens who had incredible power and influence! Just look at Amina or Nzinga or Yaa Asantewaa and all that they accomplished, but almost no one knows about them. The fact that no one knows about them or what they did is kind of a bad thing, they should be getting as much attention as other white historical queens do.

[(Anonymous)]

And Netflix documentary series is supposed to be about African Queens. You would think they would have started with anybody except a Macedonian-Greek queen only because she lived in Egypt?

My naiive theory is this...

[(Anonymous)]

Hoteps be hoteppin because all they saw in their early years was Hotep themed advertisements for hair straighteners and the like.

If lots of the multimedia of your formative years is directed towards a bizarre theory, then you may wind up beleiving that theory.

Signed, a disgusted Italian American who does not beleive that Christopher Colombus was a nice dude at all.

Re: My naiive theory is this...

[(Anonymous)]

OH lord, I can imagine all the propaganda some of you Italian Americans have with the whole "an Italian dude discovered the "new world". We are the real fathers of America" (MAYBE??? I honestly have no idea lol)

Incredibly enough, in Italy (ciao! /waves) we never really thought of Columbus as a "good" person. He was just an explorer from Genoa (Italy didn't exist back then) who discovered America while being financed by Spain and Isabel de Castilla.
When I was a kid they aired this japanese/italian cartoon with a banger of an OP song ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ireaJn7sOI0 \m/ ) and that's basically the most propagandist stuff we have with Cristoforo Colombo being a good guy and a good explorer who was interested in other people's cultures (that cartoon is almost surely VERY racist, but I don't want to rewatch it to find out).

But when you go to middle school you learn that after Columbus discovered the America they basically killed everyone in sight just to get the riches and the land.
I think I first learned that the Spaniards killed the indigenous American people with pox when I was 9 years old.

I'm sure there are some Italians that think highly of proudly about Columbus, but I honestly never interacted with one in my life. We just... don't care...

Re: My naiive theory is this...

[(Anonymous)]

Not Italian but our teaching of Columbus was very sparse with the early learning about him being: he discovered America, to later history lessons where it was: he was trying to find India, got it wrong and then claimed that he did because he's an idiot. And that's about it. So I was very ignorant about the awful things he did because he's waved off as a non-person for the most part when you get past the baby-stages of history lessons where I live.

It completely baffled me to learn that he has a day dedicated to him in the US when he's considered a laughing stock by most Europeans(not to say that there won't be people who think he's The Shit here, but mostly we just... don't care).

Re: My naiive theory is this...

[(Anonymous)]

“Columbus Day” was created in the 1890s as a way to combat violent anti-Italian racism in the US. Like it was literally part of a the government’s response to a bunch of lynchings (the US’s issues with immigrants aren’t new). Before then, Columbus was more of a historical side note. But Italian American communities leaned into Columbus Day hard, and now here we are.