[ SECRET POST #1583 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1583 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 83 secrets from Secret Submission Post #226.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

How is human suffering somehow 'worse' when there's a racial element attached or when it's connected to a real historical event? A master raping his slave and a free man raping a free woman are both still rape.

A rape kink and, say, a Nazi torture kink both involve the reader getting off on seeing one person inflict suffering on another. The fact that one has racial/social/historical import attached to it doesn't change that.

(and don't think i'm another one of those "if you have a rape kink you are evil" anons! it's totally natural to get off on fictional(<--this part is super important) suffering)

[(Anonymous)]

How is human suffering somehow 'worse' when there's a racial element attached or when it's connected to a real historical event? A master raping his slave and a free man raping a free woman are both still rape.

This is a really silly statement. This is me calling you on it vaguely to see if you're actually going to try to stand beside it.

[kelly-h80.livejournal.com]

Actually I'm curious anon as to why you find this statement silly. Can you please explain to me how you think this is silly?

[childings.livejournal.com]

You really need that explained? Really?
This is just as stupid as idiots who actually believe that ethnic cleansing and general genocide are basically the same

[(Anonymous)]

Can you help explain to me what's the difference between ethnic cleansing and genocide? I've been looking around and finding comparisons between the two terms, but I have yet to find one that really helps me to understand. From what I gather though, both refer to the termination of all people of a specific ethnicity/nationality/religion.

(You don't have to answer if you think the question is too stupid, of course. Just thought I'd try! I'd honestly really like to understand the difference.)

[archerstar.livejournal.com]

Hm. It is kind of hard to differentiate sometimes, because ethnic cleansing does occasionally involve genocide, but by definition, just being forced out of wherever you're living, with the purpose of eliminating your culture from that area is considered ethnic cleansing. Genocide is the intentional elimination of an ethnic group. While ethnic cleansing can involve the elimination of the group, it often refers to the forced relocation of a group out of a region and the destruction of their culture.

When Muammar al-Gaddafi kicked out all of the Italians in Libya in 1970 who'd been living there since 1911 when they colonized, that is an ethnic cleansing. When the British expelled the entire population of Deigo Garcia in the late '60's? Ethnic cleansing.

The Holocaust? Ethnic cleansing and genocide.
What happened in Turkey to the Armenians during WWI? Ethnic cleansing and genocide.

Because they are tied together, on occasion, the terms to get thrown around synonymously but they really aren't. Not entirely.

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you, I totally get what you're saying! So ethnic cleansing is to remove a specific ethnic group from a geographical location, and genocide is one of the methods that is used. So you can have an ethnic cleasing by mass deportation and other methods, while genocide is specifically the method of mass murder. Got it.

[iapetusneume.livejournal.com]

I do agree with your comment, but I also want to throw in that it can sometimes involve men of the oppressing culture getting the women of the persecuted culture pregnant, so as to help dilute the "offensive" blood.

So yeah, it doesn't always involve death.

[archerstar.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, definitely. I think that would probably fall under the assimilation aspect of ethnic cleansing, because at the source, the goal is still to eliminate the ethnic group/their culture from the region, since even in places where the people are removed, there is still the effort to assimilate anything left behind. This is just occurring while the people are still there, sadly.

I think a good way to simplify it for people is to say that all genocide is ethnic cleansing but all ethnic cleaning is not genocide, although, of course, it is so much more complicated than that and deserves better explanation. But, for simplicity's sake, that a quick and easy way of putting it.

[(Anonymous)]

How is human suffering somehow 'worse' when there's a racial element attached


I've literally never typed this before, ever, but . . . you sound white :?

[kallanda-lee.livejournal.com]

Sure. But they do have a point, though. Do you honestly believe that raping a free woman is somehow better than raping a slave? Both women would be powerless at the point of the rape. You can argue that the general plight of the slave is worse, of course, but the violent act is still the same violent act, no matter who it is inflicted on.

[(Anonymous)]

I want you to ask yourself why you're devoting energy to removing the specific act of the penetration of rape to the environment surrounding the rape. Like, what point are you trying to make? What is your goal here? Because there are lots of people who argue what you're arguing with very racist reasons and I have a hard time imagining what you're trying to get out of this outside of some kind of pride or something.

The victim choice, the aftermath, the level of dehumanization, etc. You have no problem acknowledging this is worse. But I as a rape survivor I would say that all of that is part of the rape. The aftermath and recovery of rape is part of the brutality of the rape. It's not just physical wounds, the mental pain is a huge part of it and - yes, a rape is worse if you're expected to clean the boots of the person who raped you the next day, if you're aware of it AS the rape happens, and hey, maybe passed on to the rapist's friends with no realistic hope of stopping it. Like. Yes. Easily. :\

This is especially ridiculous when you consider the context of this fight, fictionalized erotica. I don't know about you but the situation surrounding porn is pretty freaking important to the person with a fetish. Otherwise it wouldn't be a fetish? So the situation surrounding the rape is of particular importance in this discussion because it's what's getting people off.

[(Anonymous)]

Same anon as above, I think I came up with a better way to word it.

Obviously rape isn't measured in the amount of physical pain it inflicts on the victim. It's entirely possible to orgasm from rape, but that doesn't make it not rape.

What makes it rape is a lack of consent. A lack of control.

So a free person still has a degree of acknowledged control of themselves, even though it is being violated in the attack.

A slave has less consent, a slave has a complete lack of control. Making it a more severe rape, because in a sense their rights are already being violated with their every breath. This is additional violation on top of what they're constantly put through.

To speak of rape in terms of pain and violence alone is simplifying it beyond belief.

[kallanda-lee.livejournal.com]

Okay, I do find this wording to...make more sense. But still: I do not see how the person being violated still has a degree of control because they're a free person, though...They might have afterwards, but not during the act, the way I see it? But yes, if you see before/after and context to be equal factors, I see the point you're making. Fortunately, I've never been in the position and I'm sorry you were, anon. *hugs*

[(Anonymous)]

I was going to make a reply about how all victims have no control during the moments of violence regardless of their position as a free person or a slave, and how (going back to the origical anon's other point about Nazi torture kink VS "normal" torture kink) suffering inflicted upon a person is a violation of their body regardless of what race or ethnicity that body belongs to. But now that I've read your message carefully, I understand what you mean about the context of slaves having their rights already violated in every aspects and moments of their lives.

(Though it still makes an uncomfortable answer to the original anon's question of how can there be a hierarchy to human suffering when we're talking about violation of the body through rape and torture, when both actions imply the victims' complete lack of control.)

[(Anonymous)]

What if they're Slavic white whose ancestors were enslaved by Turks, Algerians or Mongols?

[(Anonymous)]

the commenters below you are either incredibly silly or missed your point. i agree with you.

[(Anonymous)]

incredibly silly or missed your point

Yep, that's the SJ brigade to a T. Loud mouthed and stupid.

[(Anonymous)]

Gonna jump in and back you up, here, anon. If I was being raped I would not being thinking "I am being raped but at least I am a free woman!" or "I am being raped and I am a slave!" It's not going to physically hurt one or the other to a higher degree. I mean, yes, of course slaves have it worse than free women in general, and afterward they would probably have little or no support system and would be stuck with that master for who knows how long and would have horrible feelings of their own self-worth already started by the slavery itself. It is a genuinely horrifying situation, and much worse than that of a free woman who has been raped - assuming that she does have a support system and a way out, which plenty don't...

But during the actual rape? There's not that much of a difference.

[kallanda-lee.livejournal.com]

Came here to say this.

[(Anonymous)]

"I am being raped and I am a slave!"

You're really disgusting.

[(Anonymous)]

I think you misinterpreted that. All I meant was I don't think their slavery would be on their mind at that point. The rape itself would probably take precedence in their mind.

Like, if I had just lost my home and was raped while wandering the streets, my first thought would not be "All of this on top of losing my home!"

[kallanda-lee.livejournal.com]

+1

+1

[no-one-specific.livejournal.com]

Agreed.

[(Anonymous)]

THIS. For the individual it's equally damaging.