[ SECRET POST #1907 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1907 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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06.


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07.
[Disney's Gargoyles]


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08.
[X-Men: First Class]


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09.
[keanu reeves]


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10.
[keanu reeves]


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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]


















11. [SPOILERS for Death Note]



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12. [SPOILERS for Kuragehime]



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13. [SPOILERS for The Walking Dead]



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14. [SPOILERS for Supernatural]



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15. [SPOILERS for Mass Effect 3]



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16. [SPOILERS for Mass Effect 3]



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17. [SPOILERS for Mass Effect 3]



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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]



















18. [TRIGGER WARNING for sexual abuse]



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19. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]



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20. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]



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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #272.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - hit/ship/spiration ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom.livejournal.com]

20.
http://i.imgur.com/Wtj4B.png

[lydzi.livejournal.com]

Almost every ship in Games of Thrones is "sick" and "wrong". Well at least 99% (the 1% percent being Loras//Renly and Ned/Cat ... dare I add Roose/Fat Walda?).

If it wasn't a bit sick and wrong, it wouldn't be that popular anyway ^^.

[mutantjules.livejournal.com]

HEE. Yeah, come to think of it, Roose and Fat Walda seem very happy together!

[(Anonymous)]

I wasn't looking very hard at this and my brain immediately went, "Ginny/Hagrid? But that IS sick and wrong!"

[(Anonymous)]

So sick that even on the Pit of Voles there is nothing...but seven stories with that pairing.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know what the second pairing is, but the attempted rape of Buffy was a pivotal turning point for Spike, despite being literally soulless he realized he'd hurt the woman he loved, but was incapable of feeling remorse for his actions. He realized that he wasn't the kind of man he needed, and that incident was directly responsible for him seeking out a soul, so that he could feel remorse and true love, and earn Buffy's forgiveness and love.

He was literally a soulless monster when he tried to rape her, but then gained a soul and became truly repentant. If Buffy wants to forgive him and give him a second chance, that's her prerogative. Especially since everything between them--for years--was complicated and not at all black and white.

What is the second pairing? What fandom?

[fauxkaren.livejournal.com]

It's Sansa and Sandor from A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones.

And yes, Spike is literally a monster without a soul which also makes it hard to make a direct comparison to Spike and Buffy and Sansa and Sandor. (Although I will FOREVER hate that his attempted rape was all about him and not about the effect it would have on Buffy. RAPE IS NOT A PLOT DEVICE TO FURTHER THE ATTACKER'S CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. Or at least it shouldn't be.)

[(Anonymous)]

Well, that didn't take long. Woobie Spikefen came out of the woodwork. Well, at least it wasn't one of the "Buut, SHE was the abuser, he was the she raped him first, how was he to know, mixed signals, ungrateful bitch, he DESERVES love, slutslutslut" comments that were *all over* that damned fandom at the time - and made me leave rapido. I expect if I keep on reading this thread, they'll arrive.

Me? I wish he'd tried to turn her. Much more logical and a chance for some genuine character development rather than pandering to all the closet misogynists and dealing with Ms Noxon's issues.

[othellia.livejournal.com]

Really? Are the circles of fandom vastly different or something? Wherever I go SanSan is one of the most popular ships.

Sansa/Littlefinger on the other hand...

[fauxkaren.livejournal.com]

I ~sense~ that this secret was directed at me due to a conversation I had here a week or so ago. So I might as well respond. Both are fucked up, but they are fucked up in different ways, so it doesn't quite make sense to compare them.

Buffy and Spike were more equal. They were mutually abusive to each other. This does NOT make what Spike did in "Seeing Red" ok. But their relationship was all kinds of fucked up. Buffy was using Spike for sex throughout season 6 and they were both emotionally and physically abusive to each other. But at the same time, Buffy is physically just as strong as Spike and is not frightened or intimidated by him.

Sansa is a 12 year old girl who is being held captive in a city and has no friends. Sandor is a 28 year old man who is one of her captors. There is no way that she COULD fight him off and he frightens and intimidates her.

Do you see the difference in the balance of power?

ETA: Also Spike/Buffy is all kinds of sick and wrong in season 6 and I don't personally know anyone who ships them who would say otherwise (though I am sure that they are out there). Some people who ship Sansa/Sandor admit the sick and wrong-ness of it, but others romanticize it. It's the ones that romanticize it that drive me up a wall.

[(Anonymous)]

Spuffy shipper here. I think season 6 is incredibly screwed up and not at all what you would consider any sort of healthy relationship. Spuffy made much more sense about halfway through S7 and especially now in S9.

You hit the nail on the head about the balance of power.

[agnes-bean.livejournal.com]

+1000

I ship both and agree that both are twisted (at least when we're talking S6 Buffy), but they're twisted in very, VERY different ways, and I think it's easy to see why some people are more okay with Spuffy, even S6 Spuffy than Sansa/Sandor.

As you say, it's about balance of power. S6 Spuffy was abusive, but it was MUTUALLY abusive, all season (let's not forget that time Buffy beat Spike to a god damned pulp). It was messed up because he was souless and she was depressed and self loathing, but it was EQUAL all the same.*

Sansa/Sandor, however, is an unequal relationship on so, so many levels. She is a powerless child, FFS.


*(Insert rant here about how the attempted rape was terrible on a meta narrative level for lots of reasons, but IMO doesn't really seem all the unforgivable in the context of canon because Spike was souless and then got one and then blah blah blah I don't mind that she forgave him).

[(Anonymous)]

Sandor is no more of her captor than Tyrion is. He never had any real control over what happened to her, and whatever power he had he used to help her out or cover for her. And whatever power he held over her she wasn't afraid to tell him off or speak her mind. Sansa's view was that as harsh as he was, he wouldn't let any harm come to her.

[canadian-kazz.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure Sansa is still a minor? Yeah.... Wiki says that she's 11 years old when her father dies. I know that they aged her up for the show, but no more than 16.

Also, that attempted rape is the final straw for Buffy and Spike. He leaves and gets his soul back so he'll never do evil stuff like that ever again. Everyone in the show thinks that Buffy and Spike are toxic for each other and shouldn't be together, and I'm pretty sure that Buffy and Spike never have sex again after that. (It's implied that they might have, but I doubt it.)

[lady-kinky-chan.livejournal.com]

Well, one is canon and the other is only implied (if that even).

I think both ships are sick, wrong, and unhealthy.

People are free to ship whatever and I've certainly been in relationships that were sick, wrong and unhealthy for me so I'm no saint, but I think one should call a spade a spade. I ship Kagome and Sesshomaru from InuYasha and he's tried to kill her on many occasions, so I get that when it comes to fiction real-world expectations and morals get a bit skewed. Even I can admit some of my personal ships make no goddamn sense in-canon and require some OOC-ness or as I view it: "additional character development'.

Personally, I've never liked Spuffy at all. At first it was just 'cause I don't find James Marsters that physically attractive but I soon realized the whole thing was severely fucked up and they were totally wrong for each other. Spike was in love with the idea of Buffy, not the person. He wanted the Slayer, not the emotionally vulnerable human girl who just wants to be normal.

I'm beginning to see the appeal of SanSan more and more, mostly from awesome fanart. Though I still think it's terribly contrived and makes almost no sense. Both are just wrong for each other and they could never have a healthy happy life together. Liking the ship is fine, but expecting them to live happily ever after together is just delusional.

[(Anonymous)]

Not familiar with Game of Thrones, and I actually hate the Spuffy ship, but soulless!Spike != souled!Spike, so I don't think it's sick for people to think they could have a loving relationship after he gets his soul.

[(Anonymous)]

God, it's depressing that half the het ships out there are abusive man/much older man/rapist/"bad boy" and nice/young/innocent woman.

It even seems like most canon het pairings have those elements to some extent, even in things that are meant to be much more lighthearted. They guy might not physically abuse the woman, but he'll always be putting her down or teasing her, or just being an arrogant twit, and OF COURSE they'll end up in love/sleeping together/just having SOMETHING happen. People just consider that 'sexual tension.' And if they don't, they'll be the most popular ship among fans.

I can kind of understand people who hate het. SO MUCH of it is about the male character dominating the female. It's so hard to find pairings that don't have any elements of that.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know about that second pairing, but it is a raaaare thing to find Spuffy fic that doesn't apply the retcon "never happened" brush to the attempted rape. And there were like three seasons of ship tease before they gave us that abomination of a relationship in canon (Something Blue was adorably fucked up, for example).

I was going to make a point about apparent age differences, but, assuming that the second ship is of humans, they probably win. On the other hand, Buffy is legal in every country!

[visp.livejournal.com]

C'mon, OP. While both relationships are incredibly problematic, there's still a huge difference between two messed-up adults of about equal power-level (with actually Buffy being more powerful in pretty much all aspects) and a relationship between a sheltered prepubescent girl and her adult captor who is also a soldier.

You can't ignore the age thing, or the differences in power when comparing two ships.

[(Anonymous)]

It's her age. Buffy is an adult making her own bad choices, whereas Sansa is a child in an adult's world.

[agnes-bean.livejournal.com]

A) I don't know what part of Buffy fandom you've hung out in, but PLENTY of people hate Spuffy and completely think it's sick and wrong.

B) Sansa is a MINOR. That will automatically make a huge segment of people find the ship sketchy in a whole different way.

C) A mutually abusive relationship between two more-or-less equals is different from one with a huge power differential. The latter squicks some people in a way the former doesn't.

-- Shipper of both

[robintheshrew.livejournal.com]

Both are equally wrong, honestly

[darkmanifest.livejournal.com]

Jesus Christ. I haven't seen "Seeing Red" since it originally aired way back when, but that scene broken down in clips is just awful. I've loved a lot of twisted pairings in my time but that one left a bad taste in my mouth from the start.

[(Anonymous)]

Does anyone remember when the attempted rape scene in 'Seeing Red' first aired, and there was a commercial break in the middle of it. Mid-struggle.

That's what I think of every time this particular Spike/Buffy scene is hotly debated.

[(Anonymous)]

It's because Spike is hot vampire dude.
No... not really but it's definitely one of the reasons. I don't give a crap about him but I know people who forgive all the shit because the person in question is hot. It's sad.