fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1984 ]

[ SECRET POST #1984 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1984 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

__________________________________________________

04.

__________________________________________________

05.

__________________________________________________

06.

__________________________________________________

07.

__________________________________________________

08.

__________________________________________________

09.

__________________________________________________

10.

__________________________________________________

11.

__________________________________________________

12.

__________________________________________________

13.

[Little Shop of Horrors]

__________________________________________________

14.

[Sherlock BBC]

__________________________________________________

15. http://i.imgur.com/Jxlnf.png
[sort of porny and possible underage; photomanip, Snape/Hermione]

__________________________________________________

[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

16. [SPOILER WARNING for Arrested Development]
[TRIGGER WARNING for incest]

__________________________________________________

17. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]

__________________________________________________

18. [TRIGGER WARNING for abuse, suicide]

__________________________________________________

19. [TRIGGER WARNING for sexual violence, rape, coercion, cult like mentalities, and violence]

__________________________________________________

20. [TRIGGER WARNING for pedophilia]

[Let the Right One In/Låt den rätte komma in]

__________________________________________________

21. [TRIGGER WARNING for body horror, gore]

[Parasyte]

__________________________________________________

22. [TRIGGER WARNING for abuse]

__________________________________________________

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #283.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

It's not an "excuse." Shaming and insulting bigots actually does serve a purpose -- above and beyond making a marginalized person feel better, even.

I see a lot of people kvetching about how "SJWs" tend to "shame" people, and you know what? I don't MIND THAT. The thing is, shaming bigots, calling them assholes, whatever? Might make them think twice about what they're saying. Bigotry SHOULD result in shaming. It SHOULD result in being called an asshole. It SHOULD result in being ostracized from the group, because bigotry should not be tolerated.

This BS backlash against "SJWs" is just the effort of bigots to protect their "right" to say bigoted things without facing consequences. The sad part is where you and the other people in this community and fandom as a whole have bought into it hook, line and sinker.

You know what I don't understand about SJW's? (Not all of them, but you're clearly referring to them in your other comment above.)

They want someone to correct their bigotry, racism, etc., but then the person asks them more, and they're all

"EDUCATIVE YOURSELF DON'T WASTE MY TIME *HATRED HATRED HATRED HATRED*"

Do they really not realize how harmful that is as opposed to helpful? How they're just leaving a bad taste in that person's mouth and how they're turning them away from actually doing that research?

Stopping people's bad thought and speech patterns, yes, I approve, but when they are just tearing down and leaving alone, not tearing down and leaving the starts of something better behind, well, that's just being an asshole and hiding it behind self-righteousness.

By the way, I loathe the phrase "educate yourself".

It's so condescending, and it makes me stop seeing the rest of what they're saying momentarily.

Oh lord, I hate that too. I don't always have the energy to sit there and explain for someone, but I can suggest search terms on google (you would not believe how many people have no idea how to formulate search terms, and if you phrase it wrong, you will come up with the completely wrong sort of information, particularly on SJ issues) or link articles or stuff. I usually have a whole bunch of 101 stuff bookmarked so I pull up a link and paste.

I mean, yes, it is frustrating to have to explain disability or queer issues for the eleventy-billionth time, but, IDK, I think a lot of people go into it assuming that others don't want to learn. And while that's definitely happened to me, I've run into a lot of people that really did want to learn but had no idea where to start.

Exactly! If it wasn't for all the lurking I've done in this community, I wouldn't even know what words to search for. Most people really don't know even the "basics".

And, yes, there are always people who won't care even if you try to nudge them in the right direction, but isn't it worth it for all the people that do want a nudge to change for the better? Dismissing everyone as people who want to stay ignorant and have excuses to be mean forever and ever isn't cool at all. :(

I like your approach, with the bookmarks and search terms, and all. I wish that the rest of the "SJWs" were at least a little more patient, like you. :)

Re: DA

elialshadowpine - 2012-06-09 05:07 (UTC) - Expand

Re: DA

(Anonymous) - 2012-06-09 05:27 (UTC) - Expand

That's basically the problem with SJWs in a nutshell - they treat every offense as exactly the same. A racist asshole who goes around preaching about white superiority and how all PoC should be wiped off the face of the Earth is met with the same amount of vitriol as a person who used the word "gyp" and wasn't aware of its cultural origins. And if you're going to label yourself as a person who has taken it upon themselves to help bring knowledge and advocacy and equality to the world, then yes, you DO have a responsibility to explain something to someone rather than just scream at them for being a piece of garbage and tell them to go fucking Google it themselves if they really want to know.

Edited 2012-06-09 07:16 (UTC)

This is the best comment I have ever seen about social justice. Part of advocacy is getting the word out about your cause and facilitating the dialogue -- because I guarantee if you are not having that discussion, people are going to learn all the wrong lessons.

Re: DA

fuchsiascreams - 2012-06-10 06:33 (UTC) - Expand

Do you really think you'll see a positive response from *shaming* someone? That will only make the person defensive and likely cause you, the shamer, to come across poorly to an outside audience. I'm with the above poster: it's an excuse. You may feel justified in calling this person names like "asshole", but name-calling is still what you are doing. Do it if you want, but just acknowledge the freaking hypocrisy.

Not to mention you seem to be judging an entire person's character based on one comment they might make on the internet. Also lot of what you see as an ism of some kind is subjective. I'm a woman and have absolutely no problem with the word "bitch" in plenty of circumstances, for instance. You're allowed to have your opinion and express it, of course, but so is the other person and that doesn't make them an asshole even if you personally view their opinion or speech on one issue as bigotry. IMO.

Also, the term "SJW" does not exist for the purpose of shaming people who are pro-social justice. It's a term used toward people who are *extreme* in their methods of what they see as promoting social justice. I'm gonna quote you here and say "I don't mind that" in reference to the term.

What you are doing is making these people hate you so they'll never want to join your cause. I'm not saying "Don't call people out on what they are!" because like you said, they are doing this and they need to know. But it's the way people are doing it. ie: "Wow you are a fucking idiot and deserve to die you racist asshole." I will guarantee you the person you said that to will NOT go "Oh, I guess I better change my ways, thanks social justice advocator!" They will most likely take offense at the insults and death threats while ignoring the truth in the last two words, hate you even more than they may already do, and never, EVER want to take your side on anything. I'm sure you yourself would react differently between "Wow you're [your marginalized group]? I don't know if I can accept that." rather than "WOW YOU STUPID [slur of your marginalized group] YOU DON'T BELONG HERE GO KILL YOURSELF" etc etc.

It's not that people want you to stop fighting for your cause, because you are fighting a great cause and you are definitely right in that respect! It's that people want you to do it in a way that is actually productive and not sound like your argument is based off of butthurt. Any argumentative class will teach you that what these "SJW"s are doing is completely the wrong way to get your point heard by your opposition.

Don't give them so much credit for their great causes without knowing them.

for all we know, this is somebody who posted a persons real life address because on their moniter, a picture of Korra was a few shades too light.

This is true. But the cause behind that is still fighting racism, which we don't want them to stop doing. Just that their particular way of fighting racism is not good.

But I guess I'm defining "causes" by fighting for equality in general. Not the actions taken for them.

The worst part about this is that they think they're doing ~the right thing~ and that their reasons for doing so are totally okay because AFTER ALL THEY'RE JUST GETTING A MONSTER OFF THE INTERNET, RIGHT?

Re: DA

diet_poison - 2012-06-10 17:33 (UTC) - Expand

Re: DA

fuchsiascreams - 2012-06-11 08:27 (UTC) - Expand

what these "SJW"s are doing is completely the wrong way to get your point heard by your opposition.

i think so too. i'm not saying you have to be completely polite and agreeable with everything, but i think you lose a lot of ground by being too confrontational.

i mean, it's over the internet. you have NO idea what kind of information these people you're arguing with have been exposed to. there is a lot of disagreement about social issues even among sociologists who study this shit for a living, yet people basing their opinions on blog posts act like they have all the answers. it's really fucking irritating.

A lot of people come to places like this on the Internet with basically zero background in these issues at all. Which really isn't their fault. It's their fault if they decide they don't want to LEARN, but obviously they're not going to know exactly how to behave right away. Especially when it comes to issues of sexuality and gender - people from very conservative communities might have had basically no exposure, might not even be aware of all the issues that *exist* under that category, and won't know what to say except the stuff that's been said to them for years by their parents, family, teachers, etc. I feel bad for people who are brought up in uber-conservative, backwards, closed-minded environments. It's not their fault they were in that situation, but they get crucified for it a lot. Why don't we try to educate them and cause the world to be a more open-minded place? Then maybe their children won't grow up in such an environment as they did, and we're one step closer to breaking the cycle.

This BS backlash against "SJWs" is just the effort of bigots to protect their "right" to say bigoted things without facing consequences.

This is what I usually see as well. It's people who love to use the words f*g and c*nt and spew hipster racism/sexism that seem to be the most up in arms over the SJWs. People who don't behave like assholes? Well, they tend to not give a shit so much.

Exactly.

People who aren't bigots and don't love to use slurs and be racist, sexist, etc.? Don't care so bloody much about defending the use of slurs and racism, sexism, etc. They don't care so much about putting down and silencing people who point out, call out and make noise about slurs, racism, sexism, etc.

Oh, I dunno. I never really used those words out of politeness, but hoshit do I hate the language police telling me I can't ever use them. Some of the language policing has gotten ridiculous to the point of it being frightening. I mean, context does have a purpose.

To my somewhat shame, I've noticed myself trying to use some of the bad, bad words more and more in situations where context is an issue, mostly to sort of assert my right to say whatever I want in my free danged country, dammit.

Re: DA

(Anonymous) - 2012-06-09 15:13 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-06-09 18:02 (UTC) - Expand

i've never seen anyone trying to stand up for their right to use words like "fag", "retard", or "nigger". the vast majority of people i see who disagree with SJWs are disagreeing based on their conduct: they're stranding up for their right to NOT be stalked and insulted for months at a time based on something as petty as their association with somebody who used the word "lame".

Re: TW: Slurs

(Anonymous) - 2012-06-09 15:11 (UTC) - Expand

Most people are standing up for the right to use slurs - slurs are bad, and most people dislike their use. What people object to is SWJ's conduct. Ripping into people before they even know if the person realizes the word is a slur and refuse to explain why someone shouldn't if that person asks, dogpiling people who dare not agree with 100% of their pov, stalking and harassing people for months because they happen to associate with someone who used a slur/after said person apologized [sometimes apologized multiple times] for ignorantly using a term.

*That* behavior is what riles people up, not the fact that they're calling out people who use slurs.

I see a lot of people kvetching about how "SJWs" tend to "shame" people, and you know what? I don't MIND THAT. The thing is, shaming bigots, calling them assholes, whatever? Might make them think twice about what they're saying. Bigotry SHOULD result in shaming. It SHOULD result in being called an asshole. It SHOULD result in being ostracized from the group, because bigotry should not be tolerated.

You know, I can agree with that to some extent. Someone next to you casually mentions they're in the Klan and death to all darkies, yo? Shut them down hard, ride them out of town on a rail, and so on.

However.

Someone calls a movie "lame"? They don't deserve to have hellfire rained down upon them for a moment of insensitive ignorance. They also don't deserve to have more hellfire rained upon them after they've already apologized and fixed whatever was causing issue, and they certainly don't deserve to be stalked across websites to be further ridiculed long after the fact.

Unfortunately, at least hanging around communities like this one, I see way more incidents of people dog-piling relatively minor faux pas far out of proportion to the offense and not very much actual standing-up-against-*ism. People making passing, minor comments shouldn't trigger the level of invective that SJWs bring against them...especially when it's often not clear whether the person making a seemingly -ist remark is actually part of that oppressed group themselves and is consciously reclaiming a word or just plain not bothered by a word. Except then they get accused of being, basically, brainwashed and not counting as whatever they are, because the SJW doesn't care about any particular individual.

The reason why we have the term "social justice warrior" is refer to those who can't make the distinction between well-intentioned ignorance and actual prejudice, who react out of proportion to whatever slight they perceive has occurred regardless of whether reality actually fits their version of events, and cannot or do not choose their battles (spending a month attacking someone for "lame" rather than, say, rallying against someone like Rush Limbaugh who says truly disgusting things on a regular basis and to far greater harm to society than the "lame movie"-commenter could ever do). The extremists, in other words. And if you think that someone who makes a "lame movie" comment deserves to be driven out of a community and ostracized, then you know where you fall on the Social Justice advocate spectrum.

ETA: It's like the difference between being a nice guy and a Nice Guy. SJWs are the Nice Guys of social justice.

Edited 2012-06-09 05:33 (UTC)

Oh yeah, no, I'm not talking about stuff like "that movie was lame," or something like that. I'm talking about stuff that people should really know is not okay, like, "gay people should burn in hell," "women are all bitches and sluts," "your sexuality doesn't exist," "fat people are disgusting," "we need to lock up all the 'crazy people'," "we shouldn't accommodate disabled people," "lesbians just need to have sex with a man," that kind of shit. I think it's okay to call people who say that shit "assholes," wouldn't you? That sort of thing isn't an issue of "this person may not know it isn't okay to say that / that what they said is bigoted and wrong." People who say those things absolutely know they are being bigoted and that what they are saying is offensive... they just don't care, and that makes them assholes.

Yeah, those folk are assholes, I agree. I doubt many people here are actually that ruffled about calling out those types in such a way. It's just that the people who get labeled as SJWs (well, and deserve that label, I should amend, since I know how people like bandying about labels willy-nilly sometimes) have really wide asshole-labeling brushes that cover way more grey areas than classic and unrepentant bigotry. (Heh, now I'm imagining a Coca-Cola flavor, Bigot Classic. It's traditional!)

Thank you so much for posting this. You've dealt with the crux of the issue in a much more articulate way than I've been able to (not for lack of trying, though). 100% agree.

You know, I'm not fond of the way the Nice Guy expression is used, because too often it's applied to denigrate people who simply haven't been lucky in love. (It's a variant of the "just-world hypothesis": they haven't found an SO despite being nice, therefore they must actually be a Nice Guy, a real creep who only thinks they're nice.)

But you know what? You're absolutely right. You nailed it. Nice Guys (those who really do deserve the epithet) are just like SJWs. Ask them "Why aren't you getting the romantic attention/agreement with your social justice views that you want?" and without hesitation they'll say "It's because they're fucked in the head! They're hypnotized by testosterone-fueled bullies! They're programmed by patriarchy and rape culture! They aren't smart enough to know what I know, which is that they should not only be flocking to me in droves but shaking with emotion as they thank me for showing them the right way!!"

Meanwhile everyone around them can see the frankly terrifying entitlement complex these people carry around with them. "I should get what I want, right away!! If you're a female I think is cute, you should be falling in love with my nerdy charm! If you're a stranger on the Internet, you should drop whatever opinions you have about race and sex and disability and take up mine! If you don't do these things, that means you're fucked in the head!!" (That line of "It's not my responsibility to educate you; educate yourself!" is always a give-away; is there any clearer way to express the sentiment "It's very important for you to give me what I'm entitled to but I can't be expected to actually expend any of my effort!"?)

This exactly.

Amen!

(Anonymous) - 2012-06-09 16:36 (UTC) - Expand

Re: DA

fuchsiascreams - 2012-06-11 08:42 (UTC) - Expand

That's nice, but you do know that you are just fueling their hate (or planting the seeds of hate in them) by publicly shaming them, right? Of course it will make you feel better and maybe you can get them to stop using slurs on certain sites, but it won't stop them from beating their spouses, raping women, killing homosexuals, discriminating against minorities, voting against the rights of said oppressed groups and creating more problematic materials if they get into the entertaining business. They will even feel justified doing so.

As much as SJWs think they are the next Emily Davisons/Martin Luther King, Jr.s/Mohandas Gandhis/Mother Teresas, they are part of the problem on the long run.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Re: DA

Re: DA

Re: DA

Re: DA

Re: DA

Re: DA

Re: DA

Re: DA

Re: DA

Re: DA

Re: DA

Re: DA

Re: DA

Re: DA

Re: DA

Re: DA

TW: Slurs

Re: DA

Re: DA

Re: DA

Re: DA

Re: DA

Re: DA

this this this this this

Re: DA