[ SECRET POST #2022 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2022 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 088 secrets from Secret Submission Post #289.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[truxillogical]

Artist with enough indie-comic-type friends here, so yeah, this one hits close to the bone, although people can say "manga is different." Somehow. And I can understand if it's a case of the manga simply not being available in English.

Making a comic is hard, artists don't get paid much, and series, especially smaller and independent ones, live or die by sales numbers. You are not entitled to free entertainment. You can get it, fine. Hell, you can get it legally at your local library, or you and your friends can buddy up and share books or whatever, and that's still legal. You can even do it illegally if you want. But honestly, getting defensive because people remind you that yeah, you're enjoying someone else's hard work without paying them for it? Sorry, that's exactly what you're doing. Own up to it if you want to keep doing it, but don't get offended when people call you out on it.

[mekkio]

I have to agree with you here. I have more respect for people who pirate things and own up to it than for people who pirate things and make up excuses for why they should be able to do it.

We aren't talking about food or shelter here. We are talking about comics. Comics. Yes, fandom is serious business but it's not that serious.

So, if you are a pirate, be a pirate. Don't try to make yourself out to be an innocent lamb. And, yeah, I've downloaded my fair share of hard to find, over seas TV series. This isn't a case of me being holier than thou. I am a pirate. I didn't have to download it. I wasn't going to die without it. I just wanted to watch the series.

And I have to echo with the whole library thing. I wish more people would venture to their local library for their manga/comic fix. You are still getting your comics for free as well as helping out artists out there, in that, if the library sees a series being checked out repeatedly they are more likely to buy the rest of the series and more different series similar to that. That's how it would work at the library I used to work at. The manga section was one of the most popular sections in the entire library. So, the staff was always adding more series. Which, again, helps artists and publishing companies.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, yeah, I should venture to my local library where there is NO MANGA. Okay, some people live in communities that aren't full of animanga geeks. Honestly, I don't know a single person where I live that reads anime or manga.

Also, my town doesn't have a bookstore so :/.

[mekkio]

So, just because your library doesn't have manga, no one should bother venturing to their libraries? Is that the point of your comment? If not, what is?

And, no offense, your town sucks. I'd hate to live anywhere that doesn't have at least one bookstore or a decent library.

[truxillogical]

Have you tried talking to the librarians, or requesting a specific series?

Libraries respond to the public. That's why we have 30-odd copies of The Tooth Fairy 2. Because the public spoke out and told us they couldn't freaking wait to see Larry the Cable Guy in a pink tu-tu. Our library also has a crap-ton of manga because teens come in and request the hell out of it.

If you go and speak to a librarian (and make sure an actual librarian. Circ workers can do just about anything but order books) and have a specific series or two just to get the ball rolling, they'll probably do their best to meet your request, even if they just have to borrow it from other libraries.


I kind of see this argument a lot from people who come in from other parishes to get a card at our library. They tell us we have so many new movies (it's always the frickin' movies), and that their libraries don't have any. So they only come to us anymore, instead of talking to their local libraries about it. So their local libraries don't have the circulation numbers to get a better budget, and they don't get direct feedback about how they can improve those circulation numbers, so those libraries...continue sucking.

[firstmoonie]

What if he is not living in US?
What if librarians don't give a shit about it because it's overseas?
What if the native language isn't English?
What if?

[(Anonymous)]

DA

and if you don't try at all it definitely won't happen.

- Not in the US
- Request things not in english
- Sometimes I request things from overseas
- Sometimes what I want arrives, sometimes what I want doesn't.
- But if I don't ask I don't have a chance

[(Anonymous)]

this

[(Anonymous)]

As someone who has a mom who is a librarian at a public library, I can assure you that it isn't as easy as just "asking" for something. Not only do libraries have a set budget as to how much they can spend on purchasing new copies of books/movies, but often the decision making is based upon the work's popularity and demand. Not to mention, libraries only have limited amounts of space. One person asking for a series is usually not considered enough to make it "worth it" to buy a series/book. And manga aren't considered "books", they're considered "graphic novels," which (again) lowers the chances of a library wanting to spend money on purchasing them.

Yes, of course, you can do inter-library loans. And of course you can ask for your library to buy some copies. But it's not a guarantee. (Heck, even if you request regular old YA fiction, it's still not that easy.)

And some libraries are just small and have smaller budgets because of the economic status of where they're located. Small town libraries will simply not have the budget to buy anything and everything, no matter how much people ask from it and no matter how great your circ numbers are.

(Maybe your library is different. Our town/my mom's library is in a upper(-middle) class town, so I am speaking primarily from that experience -- but she has helped out at libraries in poorer towns, so I know a little about that too.)

Tl;dr: Your advice makes sense, but not all libraries work the same.

[truxillogical]

You are still getting your comics for free as well as helping out artists out there, in that, if the library sees a series being checked out repeatedly they are more likely to buy the rest of the series and more different series similar to that.

Ah, exactly this. I work at a library, and our GN budget is kinda low, especially compared to our budget for, oh...freaking Wii Games (why do we even have those?). But the more people check out Graphic Novels and manga, the more budget we get to get more next year. So we can buy more and there will be even more for the public to chose from. Everybody wins!

[(Anonymous)]

So this is just about technicalities?
Sharing offline is legal, sharing online is not (depending on the country, though) so the first one it's ok even if the author doesn't get any money, which is the main anti-piracy argument?

Ok...

[mekkio]

Do you not get the point that if you share at the library it counts toward the publishing company/artist versus if you share online the publishing company/artist gets bupkis?

There's a big difference.

[(Anonymous)]

What I don't get with the library logic is... The library has paid for each book ONCE. Hundreds, maybe more will read it. Most scanlators purchase the book ONCE to translate and share. Guess what, hundreds, maybe more will read it.

And some will decide they like it enough to buy it. How is one copy being purchased to share better than... one copy being purchased to share?

[truxillogical]

Hundreds of people will probably not read a book. Most books, especially paperbacks like manga, do not stand up to that kind of abuse. I think ours can take, eh, depending on how bad they've been roughed up, anywhere from 20 to 50 uses before they fall the hell apart. But you're not getting a hundred uses out of one book, and certainly not "maybe more."

Library purchases track differently than regular purchases (we have to purchase most of our items through one supplier, and I'm pretty sure that's part of the reason). Also, if a book by a certain creator checks out fairly often at a library, that library will buy more copies of the book, and buy more books by that author/creator/artist.

Most people don't seem to realize that libraries, at least in the US, do not work quite so simply as: "Acquire book, lend to people." There's a little more to it.

[(Anonymous)]

Out of curiousity (and not an intent to rouse anger) do you hold the same anger for people who buy books used, secondhand, etc? These are still books where no money is getting back to an author/artist/editor.

I only ask because I have seen people who say you should never buy a book secondhand, even if it's out of print, because it's not fair to the creator, which is just BS in my opinion, especially since if I pick up Book One of Bob's World from a garage sale and like it, chances are I'm going to go and shell out my own money for Book Two, etc.

[truxillogical]

Not really. The big difference, I guess, is that a book is a finite thing. It only exists as itself.

I guess maybe it's a concept of scope, too. Like I said, a library book is really only going to reach about 50 people per physical book. Maximum. (I'm really trying to remember if I've ever seen an item come up with over thirty uses. It's rare.) A book bought second-or-third hand only goes to one or two other people. It isn't turned into hundreds or thousands of itself. For the cost of a single item, it only reaches a (relative) few people, as opposed to hundreds/thousands.

I've honestly never heard anyone say "don't buy second hand books." I've never even heard creators say that.

I'm a pretty big fan of second-hand books for a number of reasons (we get/sell a lot of them at the library too, and staff always gets first crack. I've picked up a lot of awesomeness that way). They have a certain feel to them, a weight that's comforting. And yeah, cheap helps. I hear you on that last bit. Some 25-cent copies of early Dresden Files books are why I shell out way too much money for each hardcover the day it comes out.

[darkmanifest]

I think (I'm not sure, libraries may not buy products this way) the difference is if the library buys, say, five hundred copies of the The Avengers, they didn't buy one copy and rip it so they could share it, they bought five hundred copies to share. The sellers don't care if you share five hundred purchases with thousands of people, they still made thousands of dollars. Compare that to the twenty bucks they made from Joe Pirate ripping his one copy for thousands of downloads.

I understand the butthurt companies feel over those numbers (though I'm of the opinion they were never going to see that money anyway).

[(Anonymous)]

Ah, I guess because to me where our library got most of it's books through donations/secondhand etc, it never occurred to me that a library would shell out serious money compared to any average joe, but I guess if it's a private owned or big city library that does buy everything new, it makes more sense, especially if they're buying multiple copies.

[darkmanifest]

Yeah, I live in NYC, largest public library system in the country. They tend to buy a minimum of a hundred copies of most popular stuff. They accept donations, too, but serving millions of people, they can't rely on it.

[truxillogical]

I believe somebody else linked about the difference between libraries and file sharing sites, but some of those differences hold true.

If you've got a copy of a manga--which you paid for--and you share it with your friends, a maximum of, what, maybe ten people will pass it around, probably? That's being pretty generous. If it gets pretty well-loved, it might fall apart before then anyway. And it's still just the one copy of the book. If anyone decides they want their own copy to have forever and read whenever they want, they have to buy their own.

A file can go to thousands of people. It doesn't get worn down. It doesn't fall apart. It doesn't benefit the author.

[(Anonymous)]

this!

[writerserenyty]

This! Own up if you pirate, and don't be offended or even act all high and mighty about it. I've encountered people who seem to be proud, like "Oh, you paid $10 for that movie? I saw it for free!"

[(Anonymous)]

I like when people pull out their fake credentials.

[truxillogical]

Who says they're fake, honey?