fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #215 ]

[ SECRET POST #215 ]

⌈ Secret Post #215 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Puppyspam is happy?

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 047 secrets from Secret Submission Post #031.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 ] broken links, [ 1 2 ] not!secrets, 0 not!fandom.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Thursday, August 9th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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re 18: Oh I support the author's...I just buy the Japanese versions from Kinokuniya, and not the English. I don't care if it's people like me who cause these American companies to lose money. I hate the way they censor the illustrations and script just so they can sell their shit in Walmart. Also, I have a basic understanding of Japanese, but the harder ones like Monster or Emma are over my head (and I'm lazy and find it easier to read the scanlation than translate kanji by kanji myself). :P

What I really hate though is how popular shounen series like Bleach, Naruto, Eyeshield 21, &etc have enough interest behind them that no matter if one group decides to suddenly acquire a conscience, some other group will continue to pirate it. I mean, the MINUTE Emma got licensed, the group that was translating it stopped all work and took down everything. If it were Naruto that would never happen. =/

For what it's worth, I don't think Emma gets censored. (Sorry, translator here, gotta stick up for my job. ;p) And it's just a bit more complicated than "censoring the script so it sells in Wal-mart." Most of the time (not all, admittedly) we're trying to put out the best, most seamless English product we can. Anyway.

Good on ya, though, buying the tankobon. I'm sorry the English version isn't doing it for you. Does Emma, of all things, seriously get censored?

I don't know how good the English is cause well, I don't buy it, lol. I long ago bought all of the Japanese (the scanlation group finished all 7 volumes of Emma, but were in the process of doing Further Tales and the anime when both were licensed and they stopped working on them).

I know it's a bit more complicated than that but overall it's true, they will make mangas "family-friendly" so they can sell to the parents of young kids. It's all about money when it all comes down to it.

So let me make sure I've got this right: You're criticizing an adaptation that you've never read, and complaining about a manga getting licensed when you already owned and read all of it anyway?

I think we're finished here.

I didn't criticise the adaptation at all (how can I, like I said I haven't read it, lol)...not sure where you got that from. I was criticising the American manga industry as a whole. :) I worked for them, I saw all the censorship stuff I hate happen first hand. I even had to be a part of it. I mean, what you, a translator, gives the company, isn't the end all be all of the script. It goes through so many people that by the time it reaches the end there may be some significant changes to the dialogue to make it more "American." Sometimes it's understandable, like the replacement of celebrity names or editing out logos the company hasn't paid licensing fees to use such as McDonald's or Nike, but editing out underage drinking and smoking, nudity, panty shots, and other stuff that is part of the atmosphere of the manga simply to sell it in more markets is downright offensive. Which is why I do not buy and support it. :)

Failing to buy ANY US-released manga because a small minority of potentially problematic titles get touched up is silly. There is no way Emma, for example, is not getting a good adaptation. They have every reason TO adapt it faithfully, and no reason not to. I'm not saying you should buy it, but don't criticize them trying to bring it to a wider audience.

I agree. Yes there are manga that get censored and I just don't buy them. Vote with my money and all that stuff.

However, I still have several hundred dollars a month I spend on English translated manga because they are pretty damned good from what my reading through the fandom boards tell me.

Yes, because there's more money to be made in translating than anywhere else. You say you want to live the sweet life? Learn another language and translate a foreign comic book into your mother tongue.

I'm sorry, did you have a point?

(Anonymous):

I don't know how good the English is cause well, I don't buy it, lol. I long ago bought all of the Japanese (the scanlation group finished all 7 volumes of Emma, but were in the process of doing Further Tales and the anime when both were licensed and they stopped working on them).

I know it's a bit more complicated than that but overall it's true, they will make mangas "family-friendly" so they can sell to the parents of young kids. It's all about money when it all comes down to it.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2007-08-09 07:14 (UTC) - Expand

I believe she is suggesting that nobody would get into translation or adaptation for the money, because they money ain't that good.

And yeah, maybe some touchup is for the sake of selling better. But it also might be for the sake of not pissing some idiotic parent off and risking not being able to put out Title X at all... I'm not defending it, necessarily, but you must know that most of the US publishers are staffed by fans who like the source material as much as the people they're trying to sell it to.

Bah, this debate will never be settled, sadly.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2007-08-09 04:59 (UTC) - Expand

I have nothing aginst ya, and you have a kick-ass icon I've been adoring every time I see it in this comm, but

Most of the time (not all, admittedly) we're trying to put out the best, most seamless English product we can. Anyway.

Made me LOL hard.

Me too, fellow Anon, me too. :)

And by "not all" I mean "those half-assed translations with sound effects and honorifics left in Japanese that you fans seem to love so much more than a fully, decent translation."

Basically, the better an adaptation, the larger the hue and cry from the ill-informed fandom about notional "violations" to the original.

mm... I feel the need to defend myself a little... Since I personally like to see the honorifics remain, even if only on mangas that make sense (as in, those that actually take place in Japan, or a universe heavily inspired in it). Since the Japanese text works a bit differently from ours (at least, I've never seen anyone in the west that would consider treating someone you don't know for a long time by their first name without at least any sufic such as mr. or miss, to be rude in any situation), I [b]think[/b] that it helps to at least show the relationship between the characters better. But then again, I'm no expert either in japanese or in English (my second language), so for all I know, I may be full of shit, but meh, I'm allowed XP

I'm this anon (http://community.livejournal.com/fandomsecrets/68174.html?thread=9507918#t9507918) and sorry for replying so late; I had forgotten I commented anonymously and wouldn't be getting a notification.

Basically, the better an adaptation, the larger the hue and cry from the ill-informed fandom about notional "violations" to the original.

I agree with you, which is why it made me LOL. It's futile. I gave up on the manga industry of the US when they began to have ten-pages-long footnotes. And once again when the footnotes were wrong. *cough*Nodame*cough*

(no subject)

pts.livejournal.com - 2007-08-14 14:17 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

aratama.livejournal.com - 2007-08-14 15:02 (UTC) - Expand

I guess what I meant is, sometimes it is just about business, but even when I'm not a huge fan of whatever it is I'm working on, I still try to make the choices that I as a reader would agree with, if that makes any sense.

I'm going to go ahead and be the asshole grownup and say that I don't see what's funny about professionalism.

It's really only Viz that consistantly edits so they can sell to a younger audience, and that's mostly with shounen jump titles. CMX (they publish Emma) edited Tenjo Tenge, and that's basically it. I can see not wanting to buy English manga for some reasons (like certain companies being too lazy to translate SFX), but there's very little editing in manga nowadays.

...I hope that didn't sound mean; I just don't want you to think that Emma in English is a horrible hackjob because it really isn't.

It's not about Emma having a bad translation though...I don't care, I'm not going to be buying it anyway! I'm just mad that it's not as popular as the bigger ALREADY LICENSED titles such as Bleach and Naruto, because those two are still being ILLEGALLY scanlated whereas only one group did Emma and now that everything about Emma got licensed, there will be no more scanlations!

I'm a fucking media pirate, I don't want to pay for anything I don't have to. I only buy music CDs when I really like an album (which is very rare) and I only buy a manga when I really love the story, and I'll only buy Japanese because hey, I already have the translations, why buy an edit of the originals (which is what anything other than the Japanese version is!). Also, buying Japanese is cheaper cause you're not paying for translators or editors or cleaners or typesetters, all of whom jack up the price by 50%! This is compounded on top of my general distaste for the editing jobs done on most American manga. And that is why I don't buy in English. :)

P.S. Yeah, VIZ is a terrible censorship offender and is #1 on my list to avoidavoidAVOID.

Aaah, you're cheap. That makes everything clearer.

Your best bet is to learn Japanese.

I'm not cheap. And I'm not frugal. I just choose to spend my money on other things I can't for free on the internet. :)

er *things I can't GET for free on the internet, rather. It's called being logical? I mean, yeah, when I like a story, of course I want to support the artist. I do not, however, want to support the American manga publishing industry. Buying Japanese is how I show my support, and hey, it just so happens that even with import taxes it's still cheaper than the English versions. :D So I'll continue to buy TWO Japanese volumes for the price of ONE English volume, and either translate it myself, or simply use the scanlations I've downloaded for free online. :D

Aside: My number one translation pet peeve are companies that are too lazy to translate SFX. So YES. and THANK YOU.

I don't care one way or the other about translated SFX, but it sure looks sweet and takes a lot of effort to replace them seamlessly. I tried doing the same for some doujinshi I scanlated way back, and man, that shit is HARD.

Yeah, to be honest I've come back a little bit on my hard-assed expectations of English adaptation, because the volume we enjoy now is due in part to not reversing/touching up a lot of art. It takes so, so long (and is thus expensive).

It's a sliding scale, but basically what really chaps my hide is when I feel a shoddy or half-assed translation has been passed off to fans as "more authentic," when in fact it's just "lazy." That's not really the fan's fault, though, honestly.

I guess the days of painstakingly hand-lettered and -retouched Studio Proteus comics are gone, though, for good or ill.

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