[ SECRET POST #2189 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2189 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 084 secrets from Secret Submission Post #313.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

OP

[(Anonymous)]

My issue was that his character wasn't anything even similar to who Sauruman the White was supposed to be. He was more like Sauruman of Many Colours only more of a douchebag. Sauruman the White is supposed to be good, and yet he was apparently so untrustworthy that Gandalf was hiding things from him.

Re: OP

[brightblueink]

....Really? I didn't get the impression that Gandalf was hiding the sword for him, just waiting for the right moment, and the worst thing Saruman did was complain about Radaghast (which I think he does in one of the books anyway?) He wasn't being obviously evil like in LOTR.

Re: OP

[darnaguen]

Yeah. And even if he acted a little shady, that's because he was possibly trying to stall Gandalf because he already had his own agenda at this point even though he wasn't fully "evil" yet.

Saruman was the chief of the Istari and if Gandalf was a little "oh shit" about him being there, it was because he knew Saruman, being the bureaucrat type, wouldn't necessarily approve of his actions.

Re: OP

[elaminator]

Yea, I didn't get the feeling he was evil either. At most a bit grouchy and judgmental.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

I'm pretty sure this is as a result of the Hobbit being made after the LOtR, and them wanting to keep the character consistent. Probably the ring will be treated as something potentially significant later on too,despite the fact that at this point it was only recognised as a minor magical ring of invisibility.

Re: OP

[tabaqui]

Gandalf knew the One Ring was important, was lost, and was being searched for, and he knew that the ring Bilbo found was important, even if he wasn't 100 percent sure it was the One Ring.

It talks about it in this article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/dislike-peter-jacksons-em_b_2342591.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009

There's a timeline and everything.

Re: OP

[thaurfea]

The slow-motion flip through the air and massive CLANG the Ring made when it fell out of Gollum's pocket sure seems like it's being treated as potentially significant.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

That's reasonable. I haven't reread any of the books recently enough to be picky about details, so I put it down to showing the seeds of his eventual face-heel turn

Re: OP

[forgottenjester]

Glad I saw this before I posted a wiki link or something to the guy.

But, um, wasn't Saruman still doing dickish things while he still calling himself white? Like, wasn't his turn slow and steady instead of like flipping a switch? I assumed this was him during this turning period.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, he was. His turn had begun decades at least before the events in LotR.

Re: OP

[b_dangerous]

Jester bb<3

Yeah, he always had that kind of demeanor about him.

Re: OP

[ariakas]

He didn't come off as untrustworthy or like a douchebag, just prideful and overconfident in his own judgement - character traits that lay the groundwork for his eventual downfall, to be sure, but hardly evil ones.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

ah, I get it now ... and yes I kind of agree. Because he seemed to have his own agenda and was a bit shifty - so it made Gandalf just look stupid to still be trusting him all those years later in LoTR. It wasn't very subtle.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

My impression/headcanon is that Saruman is like that jerky boss you don't like and rarely agree with but don't think capable of true evil. Gandalf didn't see eye-to-eye with him or trust him on small matters, but didn't expect to go do something like side with Sauron. Or maybe Gandalf was suspicious but had no evidence and couldn't do anything against Saruman on his own and just had to hold out hope that his suspicions were wrong. Saruman was the lead wizard, after all, and he beat Gandalf when they went at it one-on-one.

Re: OP

[scarletmorning]

Just because he's supposed to be good, he doesn't immediately has to believe everything Gandalf tells him? I didn't find his reaction overly evil. I mean, he's not the only one who doubts Gandalf! Many more don't think that Sauron could ever come back again.

I think he was portray as the typical conservative, don't-question-the-status-quo guy. Doesn't make him evil.

Re: OP

[darth_eldritch]

Saroman was kind of like on the path to the dark side at some point...

His flaw was pride, a theme in Tolkein's books.

[(Anonymous)]

At this point in time, he's already spent 100 years looking for the damn ring. He was already starting to slide away from the path of good--he didn't want the dwarves to go on their quest because he was attempting to buy himself more time to find the ring.

Seriously, it's all there in the manual, just not in the Hobbit.

Re: OP

[adlanth]

Maybe they overdid it, but I don't think it's all out of character. The bit about Radagast, for instance, sounded like an exaggerated version of his (book!canon) bitching about Gandalf smoking during the White Council (pity they didn't keep that, mind - that passage is a bit funny but it would have been more in keeping with the serious tone of the scene, and it ties in nicely with what Gandalf says later in the film about ordinary folks and all that).
And didn't the White Council attack Dol Guldur because Saruman was secretly keen to keep Sauron away from the Anduin so he could look for the Ring himself? So he would have been pretty far along on the way to the dark side even then? I don't know, my timline is a bit fuzzy.

Re: OP

[velvet_mace]

Where'd you get the impression that Saruman the White was supposed to be someone Gandalf freely disclosed his business to? He knows a lot about Rings of power, which is why Gandalf consulted him in the Lord of the Rings, but Gandalf was never terribly chummy with him.

Re: OP

[lunabee34]

I thought it was nicely foreshadowy.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Galadriel was already suspicious of him. It wasn't so much that Gandalf was hiding things from him but more she inquired on the side.

Re: OP

[fuchsiascreams]

Well, in the books, the reason that he didn't tell Saruman about anything in the first place was because he didn't know for sure whether or not it was the One Ring yet.

Apart from that - movie Saruman is nothing lke book Saruman. The scenes you're judging him for are scenes that do not even exist in the book series.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

I thought he was just being a Stuffy Authority Figure rather than properly evil (yet)

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

It wasn't so much that he seemed shifty as incompetent. Which is sort of in following with book canon, at least in his whole "no way Sauron's not back guys" thing, but yeah he was still supposed to be pretty wise and a good guy. It doesn't even fit with LotR film canon - if Gandalf didn't respect him and value his input, as it's strongly implied in The Hobbit, why would he have gone to him in Fellowship of the Ring?

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

I was under the impression that it was a way of showing that Sauruman was already on his way to becoming "Sauruman of Many Colours".