fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2192 ]

[ SECRET POST #2192 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2192 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Tales of the Abyss]

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[Merlin, RPS]

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[Lilo & Stitch]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 032 secrets from Secret Submission Post #313.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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from somebody who spent a great deal of her teenage years like this.

I was deeply, profoundly lonely, but if anyone cornered me and asked me I might've said what you just did. I had people who imed me, sure. And I always ate lunch alone and had no physical contact with other humans except my parents giving me hugs. Nobody outside my family noticed if I was sick. Nobody actually cared very much about my feelings outside my family. But people on the internet sure wanted to talk about that MUD we played!

I had "friends" who existed in an electronic box and found it very easy to drop contact with me because, well, I was just a line of text and we are human beings made of meat who are built for the physical world. Please make more friends you see in person. And go hang out with them. You're going to be happier. People might be pointing out your lack of physical social life because it's showing. A "social life" doesn't necessarily mean partying. It can very well mean just eating lunch with somebody.

Before somebody jumps down my throat, I'm certainly not arguing that online friends aren't real friends. I have a couple good friends I've never actually met. But the people I can actually go and see? These have had a heck of a more lasting impact on my life.

I think it might depend on the type of online friends that you have, too? I agree that it's good to have people that you can touch base with IRL, too, even if it's just to go out for lunch or to see a movie or to grab a coffee. I have friends through school and work here that I go out for a drink or hang out with every so often, but I'm honestly not as close to any of them as I am to my online friends.

I think this may be because of the nature of my online friends, though--they're not only fandom friends. We met through fandom, sure, but I've known most of them for at least five years (and some over a decade), and we talk to each other about all aspects of our lives, not just RP or fandom stuff (although we discuss that, too). We not only chat, but we talk on the phone and send each other mail and we even travel to visit each other when possible. If I'm ever having issues in my personal life, they're generally the first people (aside from my mom and sister) to ask about it. They're the ones that I go to when I need to discuss my feelings first. There are a few of my friends that live near me that I can do this with as well, but it always feels like more of a burden to share my problems with them, if that makes sense. My online friends and I also all make a point to check up on one another and we have a sort of friends-circle support thing going on. So, I think that it is possible to have online friends that you're extremely close to on a personal level, but you're also right in that that's not always going to be the case. I have my close knit group of online friends, sure, but I also have a lot of much more casual acquaintances that I really don't feel that connection to, and there have been a lot of people that I've fallen out of touch with in the past.

Okay, that was a bit of a rambly way to say that I mostly agree with you.

+1

I'm the same as OP, but the difference is I wish I wasn't.

Nobody actually cared very much about my feelings outside my family.

But some people do talk about their feelings and 'IRL' problems with their online friends. It's not like everyone's relationships with their friends (online or off) are going to be the same.

I do think it's a positive thing to have friends you can hang out with locally, but not everyone's experience is going to be the same in these situations either.

If all what you are doing with people online is talk about that MUD you play, I wouldn't classify those as friends though. More like friendly acquaintances. Kind of at the same level as classmates or like people you see once a week when you attend a knitting club. And those kind of people walk out of your life just as easily.

(hell, personally, I find eating lunch alone heaven. Partially cause of food related issues that make eating in front of other people uncomfortable, but also cause. Shit, I'm an introvert. 30 minutes in the middle of the day that i can just not talk to people and recharge with a book serve me well)

Other people have pointed this out, but I have anecdotal evidence: it depends greatly on who these friends are.

I have one friend online whom I've never met in person. I'm fairly sure he doesn't know what I look like because I don't use my picture as a profile pic. And yet he's be there as a constant for... at least two or three years now.

Whereas I had a friend I saw every day, whom I trusted above almost everyone else, who had a standing invitation to my house (and I to hers), and one day she decided to "reinvent" herself and abruptly told me, "I don't think we can be friends anymore." And that was the end of that on her side of it. Eventually I gave up too.

There are two morals here. One is, distance doesn't matter as much as you seem to think it does. Two, one simply cannot trust anyone my age with anything more strenuous than showing up on time, and possibly not even that.

You might want to change 2 to 'You can't trust anyone'. I've met people in their 80's who will turn on someone - someone they supposedly care about - at the drop of a hat.

I'm sorry you have met those people then. Non-backstabbing people exist.

That's good. I was biding my time and hoping things would be better once I hit my 20s/got into college, but I guess some people are just assholes no matter the age. And on the flip side, some people are wonderful, too.

I think we've all learned a valuable lesson.

I'm not so good with the showing up on time thing, but I'm pretty good at the other friendship things like listening and being supportive.

Then you are an awesome person and you should never stop being that awesome.

Agree 100%.

I'm extremely introverted, but I try to make a point to hang out with people. I'm always much happier after I do so.

I *would not* be happier forcing myself into a kind of social life that I don't want and that others demand from me! I really *am* happy the way I am now. I'm not going to change my life to fit your definition of what it should look like, just because you can't/refuse to get your mind around someone being happy like this.

the thing is, some people say and think what you are just saying, but then realize they don't feel like that anymore

not to say that you don't know how you (specifically) feel, but chardmonster and myself at least are, apparently, coming from the same place: we thought we had it down pat and were super happy all by ourselves and then realized we weren't getting something we needed.

chardmonster is saying this for everyone to keep in mind just in case you (general you) turn out to be in the same place, although she sometimes has all the grace of an internet troll (see? lack of a type of socialization takings its toll in action!) so it all sounds super-pushy and know-it-all and really holier-than-thou or something

This. Some of my best and closest friendships are online, but they don't (and shouldn't) replace the friends that I get to spend time with IRL. Basic human interaction is something that everyone needs to some degree.

Oh lord, where to begin. Let's see your life is not other's lives. Your experiences are not other people's experiences. Your needs for social contact are not other people's needs for social contact. That's nice that you've found what works for you, it will not work for everyone. Stop being so egocentric you can't see that. The OP is not you.

Seriously some people are okay with just talking with people online. Some people will not be happier having to dedicate time, money, and energy to friendships that have no more guarantee of working then online friendships. You know how people up thread are complaining about others saying they need to make more friends, go out, put themselves into situations they don't want. You are doing that. Only you're framing it as, "I was once like you, only I got better. I got friends!"

Some people have deeper relationships then just IMing people and playing online. Some people do care about the people they regularly contact online, sorry you didn't find anyone like that. I realize it's difficult to see past your own experience and realize that other people don't want or need what you do.

Okay, see this, OP?

This is an example of what you don't want to be. Someone who thinks devoting "time, money and energy" to friendships out in the offline world is less fulfilling than talking about fandom on the internet. This is what giving up and getting defensive about it looks like.

This is an unnatural way to live. I don't mean that as a value judgement; it's literally unnatural as the internet's a historically new invention. You can absolutely have plenty of real online friends without ignoring the people you may meet in person.

I "got better" without ditching the internet or my instant messenger account. It's called growing more confident. I did that while being able to count the number of parties I attended in an entire year on one hand. I'm not advocating OP go out and become a frat boy. Just go talk to people.

Edited 2013-01-03 09:33 (UTC)

99% OF WHAT PEOPLE DO THESE DAYS IS UNNATURAL

but hey, if you are so much against unnatural ways to live, you better turn off your computer right now, take off those clothes, don't think about cooking food that sure if unnatural too, and move to some fuckin cave somewhere. Cause, you know. Wouldn't wanna be ~unnatural~

Well no shit. But you can't exactly handwave away in-person human contact.

And again, there's nothing saying you can't have both types of friend.

Re: Here's some advice

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-03 21:02 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Here's some advice

chardmonster - 2013-01-03 21:14 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Here's some advice

insanenoodlyguy - 2013-01-05 00:29 (UTC) - Expand

To be fair, you are being kind of condescending and not really all that helpful, imo. I think it's good for everyone to have friends, but if a person really doesn't need real life friends to make them happy, then they don't. It would never work for me, or for pretty much anyone I know - even the most of the introverts I know get lonely if they have literally no human contact. But who am I to say that nobody like that exists?

You have good intentions and your original comment did have a point. But you sound like you're being kind of closed-minded. Most people here who actually want a "real" social life would at least be open about it, I think, and say that they're lonely. I've seen that happen many times. What reason does an anon on the Internet have to lie about something like that?

Of course if anyone here really is lonely but maybe just too afraid to meet people, then I hope they find a way to get better on that. I really do. But maybe not everyone who is alone is necessarily lonely. That isn't someone else's call to make.

Anonymous people fibbing on the internet? Never!

I guess the problem is that the "I'm perfectly happy with no physical-space friends, I have the internet" is exactly what I would have said at seventeen while falling into a deep dark depression and the belief that nobody could possibly really like me who'd met me in person, I'm only likable in text, blah blah blah.

The problem with so-called safe spaces on the internet is that they turn into feelings echo-chambers where whatever the OP says is bounced back at them with warm and fuzzy language. "It's okay. Maybe you don't need hugs. Just talk to people about comics some more."

OP, you're getting both sides here. Only you know if you're actually lonely. Maybe this is just something about not liking to party. I hope that's true.

Walden was a book about the value of lots of alone time, but Thoreau still got visitors.

Re: Here's some advice

diet_poison - 2013-01-03 21:22 (UTC) - Expand

That's fairly stupid.

I did that for a bit, trying to hang out more with people IRL because at some point I felt I needed to expand my network, both for work and to find friends or at least pals IRL instead of only internet friends who were too far for me to have a drink with.
It never worked out. I always ended up bored or annoyed, and I felt like my time would have been less wasted if I'd spent it doing the same level of over and over.

I did end up finding people I do like to spend time with, quite a bunch of them even... But you know what? All of those people are people I primarily befriended online in one fandom or another. We met IRL because we were at closer physically than former fandom friends, and because we got along well in our online discussions. And we found other activities to share together IRL.

That, in time, turned into a real friendship.

Hanging with people you have nearly nothing in common with, and who aren't curious, leads to nothing.

Re: Here's some advice

chardmonster - 2013-01-03 20:23 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Here's some advice

otakugal15 - 2013-01-03 21:28 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Here's some advice

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-03 22:36 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Here's some advice

chardmonster - 2013-01-03 22:54 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Here's some advice

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-03 22:59 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Here's some advice

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-04 21:55 (UTC) - Expand

AYRT

You make a lot of unfounded assumptions about me based on the fact that I do not think everyone is the same as me. Or that I know some people do base whether or not they want to do something on how much energy, time, and money it would involve. That includes friendships with people. For some people social situations are draining, that includes just going to dinner or being in a crowd.

(Notice I say some people and the word me and I did not enter that. Guess where I scale on the introvert-extrovert scale. I'll give you a hint, I actually like to party and bar hop. I would go scuba diving every weekend if weather permitted and I had the money. I, however, have been surrounded by introverts my entire life. So I understand how I look at going out and doing things is not how they look at it. It's called empathizing, try it some time.)

You seem to be projecting your own issues from being an insecure teenager onto the OP. See your continued reiteration of, "When I was 17..." and "I know OP might not be lonely, but when I..."

The OP is not 17 year old you.
The introverts of the world are not 17 year old you.
They are not all quietly lonely.
They can be perfectly happy with friends just on the internet, or even just one friend or none.

That's nice that you finally got over your social awkwardness to emerge as the extrovert you always were, or something. Frankly I don't care. Perhaps if I repeat it enough you will understand that everyone does not have your level of need for social interaction. It's not a confidence issue for many introverts, it's the fact they find social interaction draining and/or they don't need as much human contact as extroverts do.

Your advice that the OP do what you did, because of course they just have to go out and make friends, is irritating. Your further replies are condescending. Again stop lacking in empathy and understanding that other people are not you.

As for the unnatural way to live. That is your opinion. Again some people do not want, or need, lots of face time with others. There have always been people like this. The only difference now a days is that more introverts are meeting online rather then living in their homes alone.

Try to understand that not every person in the world feels the need to go out and make friends. Some are okay with having social contact via the internet. You might not agree and think they should fix themselves, but if they are perfectly happy what anyone else wants or thinks does not matter. When it becomes a problem for them, not other people, that's when steps should be taken to help them change.

Re: Here's some advice

chardmonster - 2013-01-04 15:37 (UTC) - Expand

Everyone is different and need for human contact has pretty much shit all to do with being an introvert.

I'm very much an introvert who needs social contact. I become listless living alone for example, and prefer to have roommates. My friend, however, is also an introvert but much more sociable most time. funnily enough he lives alone and prefers it like that and gets as much out of OL interaction as I do of IRL ones.

So, I'm sorry that you are unhappy but please don't generalize it to everyone.

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