[ SECRET POST #2286 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2286 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 100 secrets from Secret Submission Post #327.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

13. http://i46.tinypic.com/v6245z.jpg

[sugar_spun]

I don't know, you don't need to ship something to agree that it would be great for representation...but I guess it's true that most people who badger creators about this kind of stuff have the truer ulterior motive of just wanting their OTP to be canon.

Again, I don't know. I don't ship Bubblegum/Marceline, but they so seem like exes to me. I don't think it would be out of character or out of left field at all. And I think representation would be a great reason in this case.

[(Anonymous)]

I both agree and disagree with OP. I think it completely depends on the show, the writers, the pairing, etc. Like, Bubblegum/Marceline could easily be canon. In fact I think it was originally supposed to be but crazy uptight parents wrote in after a few insinuations and the pairing got pulled back. So in that case, fans speaking up and clamoring for the 'ship could be a good thing.

But a lot of the time it's not like that and yeah, I tend to lean toward the secret OPs opinion.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't watch Adventure Time, but I heard something about how one of the writers/creators said that pairing wasn't out of the realm of possibility?

[(Anonymous)]

Writers writing the way they want to is overrated. Most writers are shit at it, and too far up their own asses to get better. If calls for representation can be used as an excuse to get writers' heads back out, that's a great thing.

[sugar_spun]

Uh, I think if you're watching a show and like it well enough to have an OTP, they must be doing at least a decent job. And certainly someone pushing their agenda, even if it's one I agree with, doesn't mean their writing will improve.

[(Anonymous)]

Most writers are better at some things than others. Also they are writing for serialized TV with about 1000 things to consider that most fangirls have no idea about.

[insanenoodlyguy]

you are the worthless asshole sort that I pray writers never regard seriously.

[(Anonymous)]

Um, not all slash shippers are SJWs and not not all SJWs are slash shippers.

In fact, some SJWs *hate* slash shippers because they feel like they're fetishizing gay men. That's not my take on it (in general, some expections), but that school of thought is out there.

Then again, it's not like SJW means anything on F!S other than "people who care about other people in a way that I don't care for" anyway.

[(Anonymous)]

When used as a pejorative, it refers to people who do not actually care about anyone but themselves.

[(Anonymous)]

This is how I feel about Sterek in Teen Wolf. It's so creepy how the "Sterek Campaign" and the fans attack the people working on the show and are so dead set on the pairing being canon under the excuse of gay rights or whatever. I worry that the show will cave under the pressure and force this relationship when there's really no canon evidence for it.

[(Anonymous)]

Amen. The "wah wah wah make it canon" OTPers irritate me anyway, but when they hide behind SJW bullshit it's a thousand times worse. I'm a lurker in a particular fandom that actually has a canonically gay main character, and you still see shippers for the main femslash ship whining about how they need representation, how the showrunners don't support their queer fans because they're not making their precious OTP canon, etc etc etc.

You want your OTP to be canon? Fine. Just don't pretend your whining has anything to do with queer representation.

[(Anonymous)]

Unpopular opinion here, but I agree. Media starts to suck when writers give in to any fanbase, whether it's upset professional bloggers, rabid fangirls who want their OTP together or SJWs who complain about representation. (It's not the only way to ruin any piece of media, but it's one of the ways.)

Also, re SJWs: I agree that more representation is a good thing, but when, for instance, you're asking about representation and complaining about something you've never even bother to read/watch/play/etc., then your criticisms come off as baseless.

Also also: This is a Teen Wolf secret. It has to be.

[(Anonymous)]

You know, I get why you feel that way towards the shippers, but this feels like an overreaction. "I would rather have the writers not pigeon hole, yadda yadda.." Because that's such a great danger, right? Those campaigns by whitecock slashers are becoming so powerful that they are really changing the relationship between fandom and creators! After all, they are taken so seriously - remember how they got that slash ship with zero canon foundation to become canon? What was it, exactly?..I can't remember either.

[(Anonymous)]

But how about if the writer WANTS to write the ship, but the people above wouldn't let him because it's a gay pairing?

[dazzledfirestar]

As with anything else, there is a line that should most times not be crossed. Simply saying "Hey, it'd be cool if this was canon and there was more LBGT* representation!" is cool. And true. But screaming at creators and throwing your naked fanart at them is... well... creepy as fuck, to be blunt.

There should be more representation. I'm sure it would be cool if some people's OTP were canon but there are reasonable not batshit ways to say this that don't involve harassing the creative staff or actors.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think you're using the word "pigeonhole" correctly. At all. Unless you think their OTP is a wonderful multifaceted romance and it's integrity would be damaged by a canon interpretation. But I don't think you do.

I agree for the most part that being open about interpreting the characters as gay, supporting shows with more diversity, and finally making the media you want to see makes a hell of a lot more sense. I'm less outraged about this new trend than completely confused by how dumb it is.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't see how this is a slash issue, tbh. Rival hetships are just as likely to petition show runners, and just as likely to cuckoo up the characterization you were digging if the writers are swayed by 'em. I mean at least with a gay ship you could console yourself that even if your show goes to shut, a real life baby gay somewhere is probably going to get a disproportionately important life-affirming revelation out of it.

[velvet_mace]

So agreed. Certain Sterek shippers really need to get this message and stop it.

Still don't understand this

[nyxelestia]

I mean, sure, encourage writers to represent may gay characters, but don't use that as an excuse for canonizing your OTP.

If anything, using your OTP to badger writers about representation only makes the chances of actual representation all the more unlikely.

[altumcor]

This is partly why I can't get into a good half of stuff a lot of my friends are into. I only manage to get into various webcomics, fiction, and two or three independent films which have very little to no fanbase, so... I suppose I've become I thing I originally disliked: a fandom hipster.

I suppose if we want representation, we bloody well have to do it ourselves.

[forgottenjester]

Secrets like these make me glad I avoid those people in fandom because they freak me out. On the other hand it really makes me curious as to know what they're actually doing. Curse my natural tendency to be exceptionally nosy.

[(Anonymous)]

This issue is multifaceted. I really agree with everything you're saying about the prevalence of fangirls who couch their canon aspirations in the language of fighting for equality and representation. This is extremely irritating. Like many other commenters in the thread, I also agree that writing frequently goes to shit when creators pay too much attention to the whims of their fanbase.

But on the other hand... creators STILL AREN'T writing gay characters. Yeah, times have changed enough that we all have a show with a gay character we can point to. Of course, for each of these shows, there are ten counterparts without a gay character in sight.

The complaint I think is particularly relevant to this secret is that creators are unwilling to write a queer character unless that character is immediately, incontrovertibly established to be queer as soon as they're introduced. Then that character is taken to have satisfied the gay quota, even if they're not a part of the main cast, even if they never have a significant storyline, even if they never have a same-sex romance. Meanwhile, all the other characters are flawlessly straight. Characters whose sexuality is never established are assumed to be straight. When these characters inevitably engage in romance, they will be confirmed to be straight.

'They'd be canon if one of them was a girl' is a cry commonly heard among slashers, but it isn't baseless. People say there's no canonical basis for these slash ships, but how much canon het have we seen come out of freaking nowhere? Castiel fell from heaven for Dean, but when he kissed someone in season six, of course it was Meg, because having thrown her down into fire and used her as a bridge is a much stronger basis for sexual attraction. Stiles has been written with purposeful hints pointing toward bisexuality, but the writer has no intention of actually going there -- and I don't mean with Sterek, just Stiles alone. Abed of Community had no sexual orientation established for a long time, so of course he's exclusively straight. Sylar of Heroes had no sexuality in the first season, so they randomly threw him with Elle and Claire. the list goes on and on. The creators would see the romantic potential in countless slash ships were they het. Instead, they just think we're crazy.

At least two things really, really suck about this. The first is that queer subtext is not acknowledged or respected the way heterosexual subtext is always assumed to be valid or canon by fans, the media, and creators. The second is that in these slash ships, the bulk of the emotional power in the male characters is shared with each other, not with their female partners, and the love interests are relegated to the status of sexual object or romantic possession.

[(Anonymous)]

It irritates the hell out of me when shippers use a genuine RL issue to make their ships sound more important than they actually are.

Like how Merthur (Merlin/Arthur) was all about getting gay representation whilst simultaneously shitting on the mixed-race character/actress who was playing the very first non-white Guinevere, or when Zutara shippers argued that Aang/Katara was anti-feminist and an endorsement of paedophilia.

Please. It's so transparent - anything to make their ship wars sound like something more important than just getting their favourite OTP to hook up.

[(Anonymous)]

It used to irritate me that fangirls would couch their shipping agendas in LGBT rights stuff, but then one day it occurred to me that if fanbrats petitioning for Destiel or Sterek to become canon somehow miraculously puts more gay characters on television, I'm okay with that.

Americans are pretty much raised on pop culture and television, we can't avoid it. More gay characters on tv means that more people will come to see gay as 'normal', and that can only help.