[ SECRET POST #2337 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2337 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 062 secrets from Secret Submission Post #334.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

06. http://i.imgur.com/9lV2lSW.png

[forgottenjester]

It's... always been like that, hasn't it? It just depends on where you go, really.

[(Anonymous)]

It has always been a bit like that, but these last couple of years it has gotten a lot worse. There isn't any content in the abuse, no attempts at humorous trolling (InsaneNoodleGuy notwithstanding), just really personal abuse. Worse the online abuse has started moving offline too. Fan-haters are literally trying to ruin people's jobs, lives and families offline.

I blame FFR, or possibly Bronies.

[(Anonymous)]

It has always been like that.

Anyway, you are right to say that there is nothing wrong with personal preferences, but that doesn't mean they always need to be said. (like, you might dislike a kink, but commenting with that on a fic or thread dedicated to said kink is just dickish.) Similarly while there is nothing wrong with personal preferences, there can be everything wrong with the delivery of said preferences or the reasoning behind said preferences.

[(Anonymous)]

It's not dickish, it's your opinion and there is no reason you shouldn't share it. I hate the fact you can't honestly discuss what you don't like about a fic. It has to be all squee and applause or nothing.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think is saying "your fic is OOC" is really about personal preferences. It's basically saying the author doesn't have the skill required to portray the characters properly.

Not saying it's okay for people to react to that by throwing tantrums, but it's a lot more understandable why someone would get upset over than then saying you don't like their kink.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, exactly this. If someone doesn't like a certain kink in my fic then I don't take that personally. I say YKINMK and move on. But if someone said I was writing characters OOC? I WOULD take that as a personal attack.

[cloud_riven]

Because people forget to step away from their precious shows and realise they're overreacting. Or they delude themselves enough to the point they consider a fandom or opinion about something so unimportant as shipping or meta headcanon whatever to be an extension of themselves.

[forgottenjester]

But if they didn't have this to freak out about what would they do with their lives? The horror.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm kinda wondering why you say you don't like a kink on a fic that features that kink.

It's not giving any information to the author about their fic, they wrote the kink, so obviously they're okay with it - it's just talking about you and your preferences - which should be done on your blog/profile/whatever and not someone else's fic.

[(Anonymous)]

You should be willing to hear why a certain set of readers decided they didn't like your story. It wasn't because you are a shitty writer, they just didn't want to read it because it features a kink they aren't into. The silence echoing down your comment section isn't because you suck, it's because your kink doesn't resonate with some of your potential readers.

[(Anonymous)]

Word.

It's why I no longer participate in fandom. I just come for the fic. I don't even bother leaving reviews anymore unless I desperately love something.

If I didn't love reading fic so much I probably wouldn't even bother. Everyone is so damn sensitive. Like, snowflake-level sensitive, and considering I'm pretty sensitive myself, that's really saying something.

Seriously, I wonder how most of these people function IRL. I get the impression that a lot of them are either weepy, whiny messes, or just really angry people. Possibly both.

[(Anonymous)]

So much this!

[(Anonymous)]

Granted, you're definitely right in that people seem to not be able to handle any critique lately and that they act like any criticism is a personal attack on them. I've gotten blasted on someone's DeviantArt journal in the past when I had left some legitimate critique on a fic, and they pretty much were just trying to rile up their followers and get sympathy because I was a big meanie and how dare I give them any sort of criticism. It's just silly and immature.

Now, if you're going to leave a comment saying how you don't like a certain kink that someone's written about, that's kind of a dick move. If you don't like it and you know that's what the fic's about, then don't read it? Backbutton out and move on.

OOC is something that I think is fair game though. If someone is consistently OOC in their writing and you have tips or advice for them to not make the characters OOC, then I say go for it. I know that's something that I worry about in my fanfiction, and I'm grateful when people tell me that I've kept the characters IC.

But yeah, sadly this is a common occurrence with fanfic writers. If you're going to put your stuff out there, you have to expect that you're going to get feedback and that includes crit. If you can't handle it, then don't put your fic up, end of story.

[(Anonymous)]

Fandom's always been that way, but it does seem to be increasing the last few years. There is nothing wrong w/personal preference at all. You just need to take into account WHERE you're expressing that opinion and HOW you're expressing that opinion. Be careful of the language you're using to express your opinion.

Unless the author has asked specifically or said it's okay to leave constructive criticism, don't leave it on their journal or their fic (like on AO3's site). That's just asking for trouble. Some authors don't want crit and will get upset if you leave it and/or if you're commenting that's not a kink of mine on a fic written about that kink, then you're just being an asshole, and people whose kink it is will be offended and you'll be raked over the coals.

Also, OOC is in the eye of the, well, reader and writer. Everyone is going to different (and probably similar) interpretations of the character. I doubt the writer's characterization is going to be a perfect match for your characterization or even the series character, depending on what they're exploring in the fic. Some are widely out of character, that's what the backbutton is for, if the OOC is disagreeable to you (some believe all slash is OOC b/c the series character only dates women). YMMV on this one. Posting about this on the fic/author's journal is not necessary unless they've asked about it.

If you want to discuss it, discuss it on your journal or maybe some general comm that's open to that sort of discussion.

Keep in mind that this a hobby and no one's paying to read or for someone to write the fic you are reading (well, unless it's one of those auctions for charity to raise money--if you won and hated the fic, feel free to go to town then, I guess, since technically you paid for it).

There's different skill levels involved in all areas. Let's say you're learning pottery: you don't expect your pottery to look like someone's who has been doing it for 5-10 yrs or more.

You don't want to harsh/discourage a beginning author or someone who just wants to squee (well, I don't, it's their hobby and their fun, what gives me the right to make it unfun and miserable for them? nothing. I don't have that right, I don't think. A lot of the time, unfortunantely, fandom's the only place I have fun these days and someone harshing me would be not fun at all since it's my only source of fun).

[lirren]

Well, I'd say that depends. Are you expressing those opinions in your own space or on the fic?

[(Anonymous)]

I think lately people are so obsessed with the idea that it's not right to judge other people that it's even extended to works of art. That to say that you don't think something is judge-y. How dare you judge me! What, you think you could do any better? Yeah? Prove it.

That's why I see much more emphasis on SJW critiquing of bad art, particularly bad movies -- because that's considered an objective critique (even though, of course, it really isn't).

[(Anonymous)]

If you said that I was writing oocly, I'd probably want you explain *why*, but...I can see why someone would take offense to it. Not that it justifies throwing a tantrum over, but I can still understand that.

That said - why would you comment about not liking a kink on a fic/thread/whatever about that kink? That just...doesn't make any sense to me.

[(Anonymous)]

no, but sometimes i think people forget that ooc can be a matter of preference and people will disagree and it doesn't make them brainless fangirls. when people are hostile like that in their criticisms, of course authors get defensive. i've managed civil discussions disagreeing with an author over their fic-it's about how you word it!

[(Anonymous)]

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS!!! AND THIS!

[(Anonymous)]

I see your point.

Some people are defensive and whiny. But I also see alittle of another side of the coin. Some people don't get that how they say something is just as important as what they say.

I was asked by someone to be a beta for their OC. Their OC at first, was a total Sue with a badly written rape and dead parents as backstory.

But I helped them by being honest but kind in my honesty telling them "hey, is there a reason you're adding this...you really should be careful about how you do that". I showed her a few GOOD sue litmus tests and told her what to avoid and be careful about with her character and WHY. She completely turned her story around into something with potential.

I gave her a reason to sit down and listen to me. A lot of reviewers nowadays forget that. Some I've seen seem to act like they're OWED an audience and the writer HAS to do everything they say or "you can't take criticism" ( hell I once saw someone suggest a new outfit for someone's super heroine outfit because the old one was "boring" . The OC's outfit was actually decent and was made understated as it was so as not to outshine the canon protagonist (IIRC) But when the creator explained this in her reason why she didn't want to change it, it was touted as an example of her 'not being able to take criticism)

So yes. Some people need to be less sensitive. But critics need to also be smart about how they say things and not be fucking demanding. Try being creative with your critique, and showing things from the canon to advise them on how the character might act. But just remember that the way you say something goes a long way in how they will react.

You get more flies with honey than vinegar.

and if you approach someone with passive aggressive hostility or with the idea that your word is LAW by default than you're never going to know who would respond nicely if you were friendly and who is really just an oversensitive brat.

Sorry if it seems like I'm assuming things but, I'm just going by my experiences and what I've witnessed in fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sorry, I'm just imagining your conversations with authors going like this:

"I don't like nipple play, you should write about watersports."
"Maybe next time?"
"And I don't like this pairing, write the popular one."
"I'm not a fan of Sterek."
"I meant you should write Stony. I don't like this fandom. Write Avengers."
"Uhh..."

[(Anonymous)]

what the fuck are these little whiny ass 16 year old losers going to do when they go to work in the real world.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/billgatesspeech.htm

this dispels the rumor that the eleven rules of life was said by Bill Gates but the eleven rules still hold true, no matter who said them.

once they get out and get a real fucking job and have bosses and coworkers all up in their shit all day, they're not going to have the luxury of siccing their little whiny ass loser friends on someone who didn't like what they did.

[htebazytook]

As with anything, it's not so much what is said as the place it comes from.

If someone I respect in fandom points out to me in a non inflammatory way that they don't dig a particular kink that I do, I'll appreciate it and probably just agree to disagree.

On the other hand, if somebody decides to start a wank thread in comments on a fic bemoaning how kink X is disgusting and everyone who likes it is fucked up, that's a whole other thing.

[wauwy]

lol did you pay for this fic? If you did, feel free to voice your complaints and kink preferences. Otherwise, unless the author asks for criticism, move the fuck on and fap in peace to your own variety of free user-created content.

Not that difficult of a concept.