[ SECRET POST #2363 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2363 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 118 secrets from Secret Submission Post #337.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Gen != asexual, neither is it a synonym for canon-compliant. A story can be gen and involve a pairing (canonical or non-canonical) provided the pairing is in the background and the focus of the story is on non-romantic plot.

[(Anonymous)]

Gen != asexual

You beat me to it!

[(Anonymous)]

An HP fic in which Lucius and Narcissa Malfoy have scenes together and (gasp) actually interact, but the story is an action/adventure story centered around Harry's class, none of whom are in romantic pairings?

[otakugal15]

Slice of life fic with a pairing? I see romantic when they either GET together or are doing something romantic if they already are.

It could be a gen fic if they're busy doing yard work and it doesn't stray into innuendo or anything of the like. I dunno. but i don't like it's impossible.

[feathercircle]

If they're married/in a relationship, especially if that's not the case in canon? I wouldn't really consider that gen. Maybe if they're off having epic world-saving adventures or the plot is otherwise action-oriented, but couples having slice-of-life moments is just a particular variety of ship-fic IMO.

[otakugal15]

Then that's where we differ. I don't see it that way. Which is why the "Gen" title is a weird one, not just for the rating aspect, but for people's different definitions as to what it constitutes in a fic.

[feathercircle]

Would you mind elaborating on your definition, then?

For me, any fic whose main plot is focused on characters' romantic relationships ceases to be gen. In the type of scenario you described, I'd give a bit of extra leeway for established canon pairings since they're more likely to be treated as mere backdrop, but when it comes to non-canon pairings I view that sort of situation as essentially a romantic fantasy of sorts. Even without innuendo, 'A x B living in cozy domesticity" is still a fic about A x B as a couple.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, so what about a long, multi-chapter fic that's... how about Harry Potter (a well known one), and it's about Harry and Ron going out and kicking dark wizard butt? They get into a lot of shenanigans and danger, and throughout the story there are little references (say one every two or three 4k-word chapters) to Harry and Ron being in a relationship (such as them making a small off hand joke about their personal life after a fight, or giving each other a small, fast kiss after a particularly dangerous fight), but nothing overt or thrown in your face? No 'Oh my god, I love you so much!' or them constantly flirting or holding hands? The fic is NOT about them being in a relationship, and would still stand the test of time (i.e. the story wouldn't change) if you took out those little jokes and references.

I think that's Gen, not romance fic, and I would label it as such (with a mention that there's references to Harry/Ron). And I also wouldn't want someone to TAG it as romance when it's very clearly not, because you have to look with a magnifying glass to even see the bits about their relationship, as it's not central to the story at all. 'Gen' to me is short for 'General', not 'No pairing'. I think there's a massive difference.

(Note, I don't read nor write nor ship Harry/Ron, I'm just using it as a well-known reference)

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I see how one could label it as Gen but I'd still be annoyed as a Gen reader going into a fic that had pairings like that. I'd be more lenient if the pairing was canon, but otherwise no you're still shipping within the fic so not Gen. Just my thoughts.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I think this all boils down to different people having different definitions of 'gen'. I've never seen it as a statement about shipping, but a statement about plot, but that might be because I don't read fics primarily for the shipping, I read them for the plot. If the plot's not good, it doesn't matter if it's about characters I ship, I'm not going to finish reading it. And I only go for 'M/M', 'F/F', 'M/F' if I'm looking for something revolving around a relationship, or into which the relationship plays heavily. In my experience most fics that are tagged with those are very, very romance heavy, not 'adventure, with minor references to a relationship', because why the hell would you tag a fic that's about people going and doing awesome, non-relationship/non-romantic things with a romance-based tag (even if there's very minor relationship-based things in it)? That seems illogical.

And if the description (and preface) to a story marked as 'Gen' says that it's got minor references to 'Harry/Ron', why would you continue reading if that's not what you want? It's clearly labeled, unless you don't read the descriptions (which I don't see why anyone WOULDN'T as you weed out 90% of the fic you don't want to read just by reading the descriptions/preface).

I feel like the easiest thing to do would be to make a new tag that's 'no pairing'. That way everyone could be on the same page. ._. Because no one's ever going to agree about what Gen means.

[(Anonymous)]

No pairing wouldn't work. Someone would eventually pitch a fit because it referenced a married couple somewhere in it, even if it wasn't the focus.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT (again)

I should also mention (as I just went and looked), but for posting fics to AO3: If you click the 'categories' help button, it described Gen as such:

Gen
General: no relationship, or containing relationships which are not the main focus of the work

Therefore, having very minor relationships IS actually covered under the Gen tag on AO3. I couldn't say about ff.net, as I haven't owned an account in many years.

[(Anonymous)]

General: no relationship, or containing relationships which are not the main focus of the work.

Seems perfectly logical and self-explanatory. Therefore, it will never fly with fandom.

[otakugal15]

THIS. Thank you. This is what I was trying to get at in my other comments.

and this whole, "well, it's not canon. so it's not gen" is fucking bullshit. Canon pairs aren't super special in that way. Jesus.

[kaijinscendre]

Yeah...Gen generally means that there are not romantic pairings...

[(Anonymous)]

So if the main characters are minors with married parents, the parents can't both be in the story or it's not gen anymore?

[(Anonymous)]

There is a difference between mentioning offhandedly that they are married and having actual romantic scenes. If it is the latter, it isn't gen.

Otherwise, what exactly is the purpose of the gen label? We already have genre tags to tell us if a fic is action or drama or romance. If gen isn't to signify that there isn't any romance in the story, what is its use?

[duaedesigns]

I would say that canon pairings being included still counts as gen, but ANY fan pairings are no longer gen, because it's now including your ship opinion in it.

So if I write Harry by himself, but mention his parents being together as they were in the books? Gen. If I write Harry and mention Ginny and Snape having hawt sloppy makeouts in the corner? NOT GEN. I have just gotten some Ginny/Snape action all up in there.

[(Anonymous)]

I disagree. If there are romantic scenes, even of canon pairings, it is no longer gen. Canon pairings aren't any more special than fanon pairings. Offhand mentions of fanon pairings would still be gen as well. The issue is when we have romantic scenes between characters, at which point it is no longer a gen fic.

[kaijinscendre]

As long as it is canon and so far in the background it is just a mention sure. Non-canon pairings should not be.

[(Anonymous)]

So, let's say there's a show with characters Lisa, Bob, Andrea, Mike, and Karen. On the show, Andrea and Mike are not together. But someone writes a fic where Bob offhandedly mentions that Andrea and Mike ran off together and eloped. Andrea and Mike never appear in the story, and that is the single allusion to their fanon relationship. There are also no romantic interactions between anyone in the fic.

You believe said fic should be labeled Romance?

[(Anonymous)]

Not always, and not on AO3. On AO3, and I quote:

"General: no relationship, or containing relationships which are not the main focus of the work".

On AO3 it is fully acceptable for a fic to be Gen and have pairings, so long as those pairings aren't the main focus. While in their faq they say this may vary from fandom to fandom or even fan to fan, that is the guideline THEY give for Gen fic.

[ooh_mrdarcy]

I agree.