[ SECRET POST #2426 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2426 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 080 secrets from Secret Submission Post #347.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

03. http://i.imgur.com/pab0b4x.png

[vethica]

Ugh, hate those redesigns.

[(Anonymous)]

I am so sick of seeing people complain about the redesigns. Get over yourself.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't read their rants then? I love the Disney princesses and I don't think it's all together black and white where their role in feminism stands (after enduring years of Pixar only making films for boys... I was happy to see a few more princess movies come around) but I don't have a problem with other people posting their own opinions about it.

Plus not new to you does not mean the argument isn't new to someone else, we all grew up with the Princesses but that doesn't mean we have all taken a step back to analyze it. Especially if someone is young and fairly new to feminist posts.

So yeah, just don't read their rants if it's that annoying.

[(Anonymous)]

I understand the O.P.'s frustration, although I agree scrolling past and ignoring is a good tactic. I've found, those that argue the princesses aren't feminist tend to see the characters in a very black and white, out of context goggle... and it's frustrating because quite a few of the princesses are victims of abuse when you get down to it, and most of them find their own way out of it. Even Snow White is a good role model because she was able to leave her old world when her life was in danger and she created a new one for herself... even if that was 'domestic and bad' according to extreme feminists it's still something not every one is able to do. As a survivor of child abuse, the princesses were a gateway to help me cope and become strong in my own right.

[dreemyweird]

Well, repetitive arguments are a feature characteristic of Special Olympics, that's just the way things are. People debate these issues over and over, and the only progress that happens is in individual minds (often there isn't much of this, either).

The one thing that irks me when it comes to the Disney Princesses wank is that most of the stories are reinterpretations of fairy tales, and feminism is not even a thing in this part of literary culture. Talking about how misogynist these tales are is missing the point entirely.

[and, like, I get that modern adaptations aren't just analogues of the original versions, but to reinterpret means to take the motifs and play with them, not to throw them all away and introduce new ones.]

[tasogare_n_hime]

The one thing that irks me when it comes to the Disney Princesses wank is that most of the stories are reinterpretations of fairy tales, and feminism is not even a thing in this part of literary culture. Talking about how misogynist these tales are is missing the point entirely.

Agreed 100% People complain about Disney princesses being anti-feminist, and never once mention the source material Disney had to work with.

Then on the other side you have the people who blame Disney for ruining fairy tales, who ignore that there were all kinds of variations for most of those stories long before Disney ever existed. Cinderella has variations dating back to Egypt.

[darkmanifest]

The one thing that irks me when it comes to the Disney Princesses wank is that most of the stories are reinterpretations of fairy tales, and feminism is not even a thing in this part of literary culture.

I dunno about that, fairy tales are one of the few genres of stories where having a bunch of interesting female characters as the main heroes and villains, the centerpieces of the story rather than on the sidelines of some Dude Hero's epic adventure, wasn't a rare exception, but common. They always struck more as more unintentionally feminist than most literature (especially depending on the version i.e. The Grandmother's Tale versus Red Riding Hood).

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know what definition of feminism you are using, but there is tons of legitimate, critical, feminist scholarship of fairy tales (Marina Warner, Maria Tatar, Jack Zipes). To say "feminism" doesn't exist in that "literary culture" is frankly bizarre. If you mean they don't automatically conform to contemporary feminism, that's one thing, but Perrault, for example, was writing out of a salon tradition that among other things advocated against arranged marriages between teenage girls and old men. And even among the source tales, it's worth considering the implications of which choices Disney made among the available sources.

(I don't hate the Disney movies, but I hate that it's become "common knowledge" that all fairy tale heroines are passive, or victimized. That's never been true.)

[(Anonymous)]

i hate when people complain about the redesigns. Don't like them? Don't buy them. It isn't like they got rid of the old ones. Jeesh. they are just trying to give them a cohesive look.

[iggy]

I actually find most of the redesigns to be perfectly okay and in some cases, really pretty. Pocahontas is a hot mess with all that hot topic jewelry though.

[(Anonymous)]

Ooh, sparkly!!
...sorry, you were saying ..?

[(Anonymous)]

This was pretty much my reaction too.

[transcriptanon]

[Picture is the "Disney Princesses" characters from the franchise/toy/merchandise line of the same name, featuring Snow White, Mulan, Aurora, Belle, Tiana, Rapunzel, Ariel, Cinderella, Jasmine and Pocahontas, all of them wearing the dresses from their movies or pimped out versions of their normal attires. Most of them are posing kind of elegantly for the camera, while others look just sort of sweet or serious/dramatic.]

I am going to scream if I read yet another rant about the Disney Princesses that always repeat the same old shit. You say Snow White is expected to be domestic? WOW I NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT BEFORE.

Feminists, move on. There are lots of different topics out there. At least argue something different for a change.

[(Anonymous)]

Why are the POC princesses in the back

[(Anonymous)]

Why did you completely miss Tiana directly up front

[diet_poison]

*shrug* I'm not sure why people get up in arms about it but my reason is because the Disney princesses, at least the older ones, were never SUPPOSED to be a paragon of feminist representation. It's one thing to criticize them but another to have heated arguments about it. Yes, Snow White is supposed to be domestic. Is that a problem? Sort of, I guess - it just reflects a larger historical problem. In its own time it was hardly problematic.

[iggy]

I just wish I could find some feminist discussion of Disney princesses by someone who doesn't have a massive and super biased hate-on for Rapunzel (aka most of the major FEMINIST DISNEY blogs on tumblr).

[republicanism]

wait here i can even rattle all the arguments off

snow white = sexual assault/necrophilia, sleeping beauty = sexual assault, beauty & the beast = bestiality/stockholm's syndrome & that bs about the little mermaid giving up everything "for a vagina/for a man"

ahem anyway yeah i agree

[(Anonymous)]

Make your own posts then, jfc.

[saiika_von_maou]

Agreed. If you ask me, it's okay to talk about how Disney can move forward from these types of princesses, but bashing them is really getting old. And I honestly don't think they're nearly as anti-feminist as a lot of people seem to think they are.

[rbhudson]

You sound male

[truxillogical]

Eh, Disney Princess stories are basically Feminist Training Wheels.

They're a shared culture, a set of stories (and a specific interpretation of those stories) that most folks on the internet are familiar with, and that many people grew up with. And when you grow up with something as a child, you often accept it at face value. So when babby-feminists first start really thinking of Feminist Values In Media, one of the first things they latch onto is the Disney Princess Stories. And babby-feminists are often very angry, because let's face it, thinking about Feminist Representation In Media is enough to make anyone angry if they do it too long, and for babby-feminists, it's a new experience, a new realization, and it hasn't cooled yet. And there is so much to be angry about, and let's talk about Stockholm Syndrome and Snow White's forced domestic status, and the creepiness of Prince Charming, and OH MY GOSH I DIDN'T KNOW ANYONE ELSE THOUGHT THIS WAY!!!

And it can become an echo chamber.


It's just folks who are new to the rhetoric trying out their voices, nine times out of ten. Eventually, they settle down and decide that Pink Is Not The Devil, and that girls can like sparkly things and princesses, but that there are still problems, and that those should be discussed, especially problems in current representation, as opposed to something made when the 19th Amendment was a recent memory. It's still something to be aware of--shared social experience and all--but it's not something that needs to be referenced constantly.

But there's always new babby-feminists trying out those training wheels. So it's a thing.

[(Anonymous)]

the most disturbing thing to me is the message that it is required to be pretty.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

> Feminists, move on.

You mean, like the threat to shut down health care, abortion access in Texas and Arkansas, Hugo Schwyzer's attacks on WoC, Dave Winer's comments on women in technology, general ideas on writing women in fiction, alternative ways of interpreting film to the Bechdel Test, all of which have gotten more bandwidth on my dash than wank about a character franchise that hasn't seen an update this year.