[ SECRET POST #2518 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2518 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 060 secrets from Secret Submission Post #360.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

06. http://i.imgur.com/57stjLd.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed 100%.

[(Anonymous)]

You are so right.

And what makes it worse? They changed it to a "magic is a drug" addiction storyline (at least according to rumor) to get money from the Office of National Drug Control Policy, much like the Beer Bad episode. They didn't get money for Beer Bad; not sure if they did for the magic addiction stuff.

[(Anonymous)]

I just looked, and I see no rumors that the magic-abuse storying was about getting money from the Office of National Drug Control Policy. The stuff about Beer Bad said it was the WB trying to get money anyway, and that wouldn't apply in season 6.

[(Anonymous)]

I heard they changed it to magic addiction because Aly Hanigan was concerned Willow wouldn't be likeable anymore. I also heard it was a conscious decision on the part of Whedon and the writers because they didn't want to make Willow completely unlikeable.

That's the thing about rumors....

[intrigueing]

I don't see how that would make her unlikeable though. It would have made her MORE likeable IMO. It would be a brilliant example of how no, really, untrained high school/college kids do automatically not go through that kind of exhausting, gutwrenching, death-filled, world-saving stress and danger on a regular basis and never acquire serious mental scars over the years.

[tabaqui]

HA. Willow was unlikeable pretty early on, too late, Ms. Hannigan.

[(Anonymous)]

And I read somewhere that the writer that was in charge of that story line (Marti Noxon?) had a son/nephew/family member going through drug addiction and rehab and so everything was about that for her. She shifted the story to be all "drugs/magic are bad and they ruin everything"

[(Anonymous)]

Season 6 was a jumbled mess for the most part. This was one of those things that made it a jumbled mess.

So again, agreeing with you.

[(Anonymous)]

Seasons 6 and 7 in general had some really bad things going on with the characters- Willow's magic storyline ending with one 'light' spell and now she's all better forever? And Xander- season 5 he got his shit together, a great job, a wonderful girlfriend and he had valuable insights into the fight. Season 6 and 7 they throw his relationship under the bus, maim him, give him nothing to say except 'I hate Spike' and the actor got noticeably larger. The last is a bit of an odd dislike but these characters were supposed to be fighting regularly why would the actor gain weight like that? I never understood.

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe it's old by fandom standards but it can't be said enough.

I hated how they torpedoed a character arc that had spanned years, building it up so beautifully, and ended it with the idiotic notion that it was candles and herbs that Willow was hooked on, rather than the power.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

You said everything I came here to say. The writing in season 6 was ham-handed and inconsistent at best. And it was such a disappointment, considering what could have (and should have) been.

[lunabee34]

Yes, yes yes! That's exactly what I just said upthread to Tabi.

[tabaqui]

I want to comment but i detested Willow pretty quickly and will only devolve into a rant that nobody wants to read. But, yes 'magical addiction', meaning - addicted to candles and herbs and whatnot was bout the *most stupid* thing ever.

[(Anonymous)]

I'd read it. And probably agree with 95% of it. The Willow adoration that goes on in fandom completely escapes my understanding.

[takaraikarin]

I'd read it. Buffy was before I had access to internet, and none of my friends watched it, so I was all alone in my dislike of her.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, this is where my comics fan retconning acceptance comes in handy. Because a lot of the broad strokes of what happened with Willow's fall into darkness was awesome, but I kind of pretend it *actually* happened because she got addicted to, well, power, rather than "magic", because that actually makes *sense*.

Also, I really, really, really want Alison Hannigan to play a villain in something. Anything. She was so awesome at playing evil Willow!

[(Anonymous)]

Agree to this. The Willow Miniseries really puts that whole deal in order and its a must read even if you don't like the comics. It's really about Willow's relationship with magic (actually, season 8 and 9 as a whole give a much better perspective abut Willow and magic, and how much it's a part of her)

[(Anonymous)]

Can I divert the conversation a little here?

Why is it that everyone (especially, I've noticed, in this community) thinks that 'the ends justify the means' is automatically immoral? So long as you factor in ALL the consequences of your actions, as well as the intended 'end', and find them to be more good than bad, I don't see why it's so wrong.

[(Anonymous)]

Willow didn't factor everything in, imo. Her desire to resurrect Buffy had less to do with grief over losing a good friend and more to do with the idea that she could. Not once is it mentioned in canon that she attempted to locate Buffy prior to pulling her back into the world. Buffy was a warrior who died a noble, world-saving death - it was just as possible she ended up in a "heaven" dimension as a "hell." But Willow just wanted to resurrect the Slayer.

She didn't even consider the possibility that Buffy would wake up in her coffin.

God, there's so much to dislike about that character when I think about season 6.

[intrigueing]

It's a legitimate philosophical position - utilitarianism, most strongly associated with John Stuart Mill - but it's by no means universally accepted as an obvious moral truth. A nice illustration of some of the counterarguments it gets is Ursula LeGuin's "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas."

The other, related, main objection is that everyone, depending on their position in society, or their past life experiences, or just their opinions, has different ideas of how to calculate what "more good than bad" is because there's no standardized, easily quantifiable way to measure the objective moral value of one thing vs another thing, so who exactly gets to set the standards for how moral value is measured? And how do you choose who gets to set the standards? There are other objections too but it has already taken several books to voice them all and people still haven't finished.

[caffeine_buzz]

Maybe about ten years too late but still so true. The show did such a good job of planting the seeds of Willow's eventual corruption and then suddenly threw it all away and went "lol nope it's actually the magic drugs and hey look Willow's even going to the magic crack den." One of the many reasons that I don't care for seasons 6 and 7 very much.

[(Anonymous)]

I mostly disagree, but I admit it's more because the comics make it much more clear. The addiction is a symptom, not the cause. Dark Willow is Willow, not what "the drug" made her.

The show muddles it a lot, and it can be legitimately interpreted as that "magic get's you addicted and you do bad stuff" because certainly it was presented like that in the most heavy handed episodes. Certainly they tried to "cure" it through detox.

But that's the thing, magic is not a drug, the addictive thing is the power it grants. Magic itself is neither good or bad, and that's one of the major points of of the Willow miniseries.

So in retrospective, the treatment of magic as a drug makes sense as the explanation "newbies" would came up with, from an in-universe perspective.

So yeah, if you only count the tv series, it is a mumbo jumbo of mixed messages (so yeah, if magics is drugs, there are good drugs!) but the comics really try to explain the inconsistency by the way Willow interacts with magic.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm glad it's working for you but for me, there's ONLY the TV show, and the comics is just a way of trying to repair a major story fuck up.

But for me, I'm always going to have the picture of her actually going through physical withdrawal at the end of Wrecked. And for that matter, Willow tripping on the ceiling of the "magic crack" house.

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed. While I do think that magic in the Buffy-verse may have an addictive quality (that channeling large amounts of magical power has a physical effect/sensation not unlike that of a drug) but that aspect of it was only the extra carrot that helped Willow keep going forward on her own path to darkness.