[ SECRET POST #2527 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2527 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 042 secrets from Secret Submission Post #361.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[kaijinscendre]

*googles The Giant Chicken that ate Hoboken* Huh. And yeah, I don't get it either. Would you rather have some broken buildings or be DEAD.

[(Anonymous)]

you're joking, but serioustalk, I imagine there are people who would take the dead option over losing everything


hypothetically speaking

I'd take the staying alive option, tho

[kaijinscendre]

Then (and I am being serious) they can make the choice to kill themselves.

Using the Avengers, you could have no superheroes, a destroyed world, and everyone dead. No choice.

OR you can have a sort of destroyed Manhattan and most people alive. If the people who are alive have lost everything and watch to end their lives, let them do so. The people who lost everything and are like, "Man. At least I got my life!" will be able to live.

[(Anonymous)]

They can kill themselves and the rest of us can take what's left of their stuff to supplement what we lost. Win-win!

[kaijinscendre]

That is evil genius talk right there!

[dancing_clown]

"Lost everything" is kind of presumptuous on your part, and yeah. Sometimes the good of the many outweigh how a few people with an unhealthy outook feel about being alive.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Hey, Giant Chicken that ate Hoboken would suck less than about half of the MCU movies.

[kaijinscendre]

It is a book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hoboken_Chicken_Emergency)! And, how DARE you. Unless that half is Captain America. Soooo boring.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

I dare because the X-Men movies generally sucked, Captain America was weak, the first two Iron Man movies were barely above Michael Bay fare, and Thor primarily watchable for the gonzo production design.

[miffthefox]

While I agree with this, I have to point out that the X-Men movies are made by 20th Century Fox and are no more part of the MCU than the Spiderman films.

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

That's giving Michael Bay too much credit.

Iron Man actually had a tiny bit of sensible characterisation, and didn't hide the lack there-of behind frat-boy humour.

[crunchysunrises]

I strongly suspect that your viewpoint would heavily depend on whether you or your family members are standing in the lee of that building when it collapses.

[(Anonymous)]

If they were, they probably would have ended up equally dead without the intervention of the heroes, given that they were standing in the middle of a supervillain/alien/whatever attack.

[crunchysunrises]

Maybe, maybe not. It would probably depend on whether or not the aliens wanted to raze the place or simply conquer it and keep the locals around more or less intact to run the place.

And regardless, no one is that rational when it comes to the actual, proximate cause of their loved one's death - if Thor drops a building on a handful of people, he'd best expect their living relatives to call him a villainous murderer and campaign for consequences.

[diet_poison]

Wait, are you saying you think the Avengers should have just let the aliens rule on the chance that they wanted to do so peacefully (never mind the legitimacy of wanting political autonomy from a strange group of people)?

And as I pointed out before, just because their irrational response makes it understandable, does NOT make it okay. Thor doesn't deserve to experience legal consequences because of someone's irrational grief response to Thor doing the right thing by saving a bunch of peoples' lives.

[crunchysunrises]

I at no no point said that I thought the aliens should rule. The previous poster said that everyone would've ended up dead without the heroes' intervention. That's a fallacious assumption, as is your assumption that I'm in favor of allowing people to invade your territory.

It's not really irrational to hold a grudge against private individuals who, having been empowered by a random shadow agency that no one knows anything about rather than the leaders of your own government, proceed to rampage through the streets. It's not like the people on the ground are going to have a really thorough understanding of who's there to murder then and who's defending them when both sides are killing them left and right with energy beams and falling masonry.

And that difference in perspective and who knew what when is why Thor and Co are going to get flak - unless Capt. America is a much smoother talker than I think he is.

[diet_poison]

And this illustrates perfectly my point about the superheroes being a scapegoat. If someone's family member died it's not surprising they'd want someone to "pay" for it, and the people responsible are dead. However, that's an emotional response and it isn't fair or right.

[crunchysunrises]

They're not scapegoats. By and large their private individuals who take matters into their own hands and summarily decide to murder large swathes of the population. It's like your neighbor deciding that, because he has a tank (but possibly not the license for it - and yes, private individuals can own tanks in some U.S. states), he gets to make the rules in your neighborhood and dissenters will be summarily shelled.

There are exceptions, of course, but by and large they're unstable criminals.

[diet_poison]

Wait, are we even talking about the same thing here?

By my understanding, you just compared superheroes who work to defeat villains to someone who causes trouble just because they have power.

This is like saying the Avengers wrecked New York just for the hell of it, and completely ignoring the role Loki and his henchmen had to play.

[(Anonymous)]

This is an idiotic argument.

These private individuals [unstable criminals!!!] decide to just up and murder buckets of people. I mean, really. That's what you take away from superheroes.

[mechanosapience]

Wow. Way to miss the point.

[nyxelestia]

Okay, if my neighborhood were peaceful and the neighbor suddenly did that, then yeah, I'd be pissed.

However, if some crazy terrorists were suddenly invading my neighborhood and seemingly intent on burning down my home and killing me and my family, then actually, I'd be pretty happy that this crazy guy with a tank was defending our neighborhood from this threat - especially if the only thing he requested in return was to be left alone when he was done or something to that effect. If he destroyed my car in the process, I'd be upset, but I wouldn't blame him.

And, if my family member died because of something he did in the process of stopping the invasion, then yes, I'd likely be upset at first that why did THEY have to die for this cause...but after that, I'd probably be grateful that I and the rest of my family are still alive, and that (at least some of) my friends and neighbors are still alive, and if I'm comparing that to "we're all enslaved and/or dead", then yeah, I'd actually still be grateful that someone stepped in and kept a bad situation from getting worse. Maybe not happy, but still grateful.

[(Anonymous)]

it isn't fair or right

but it's still how life works.

[diet_poison]

I really hate it when people say things like this. They're shitty cop-out justifications for acting in ways that are self-gratifying even if they hurt others. You could tack it on to any number of things, irl or in fiction, that people say is wrong. And, you know, it really misses the point when the entire conversation is basically about whether or not it's right to blame the heroes for the damage. Your entire response boils down to "it's right because it exists"

[(Anonymous)]

what about the people in the buildings?