[ SECRET POST #2570 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2570 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[The Lying Game]


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03.
[Hobbit movies, LOTR movies, Tolkien]


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04.
[Perry Mason]


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05.
[Carnivale]


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06.
[Downton Abbey]


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07.
[BBC Sherlock]


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08.
[Lee Pace]


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09.
[Virtue's Last Reward]


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10.
[Deep Space 9]


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12.
[Elementary]














Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 040 secrets from Secret Submission Post #367.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

07. http://i.imgur.com/ZeWhbMZ.jpg
[BBC Sherlock]

[(Anonymous)]

I find amusing (and by amusing I mean fucking stupid) how people completely ignore Gatiss. He's one of the two creators of the show, producer and writer and people act like he's just the guy who plays Mycroft and has no saying in the show so Moffat can be the evil boogeyman. You guys are beyond help.

[(Anonymous)]

just think of "Moffat" as synechdoche for "the creative team behind Sherlock/Doctor Who" if that helps

[(Anonymous)]

da

Gatiss' writing was fine, if a bit gimmicky, until he got bitten by the keep-it-moving-at-100kph-so-they-won't-notice-the-gaping-plot-holes writing bug that's infected Moffat since forever. And arguably, he was the closest to Canon of all of three of the BBC Sherlock writers. Until he decided to write to the Tumblr fandom. Then he wasn't.

[(Anonymous)]

He's the one that made fun of fat fangirls, so I hear what yr saying.

[(Anonymous)]

I dislike Moffat's writting of plot and his treatment as any person should, but I really thing this is getting tiresome.

Both characters have faults that come from being written by Moffat, but there's also so much more about them that it just feels like people are focussing in the bad. And that is reductive on itself and as disrrespectful (and even more) than Moffat's faults.

You can like something problematic, and you can like aspects of a character while disliking others. Both Mary and Irene have some amazing traits, cause Moffat isn't a total hack in what he does (and even a broken clock is right twice a day)

Don't let the Moffat hate blind you to the good aspects Irene and Mary have.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Yeah that's fine but neither of those characters even remotely resemble their Canon counterparts.

[(Anonymous)]

Boy people will whine about anything. Moffat makes a badass female character that even most Johnlock nuts enjoy and he is doing it because....I don't know. Apparently even making a good character is bad.

[badass_tiger]

Ugh, mte. Mary the most amazing thing about series 3, she was a well-developed and -portrayed character - seems to me the OP is just looking for things to complains about.

[(Anonymous)]

He's going to have Sherlock bang her, that's for sure.

/no homo

[(Anonymous)]

What's so bad about Mary's characterization? I'm honestly curious.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT

From what I can see, she goes from good to evil to good again at slightly under the speed of light and somehow this plot whiplash doesn't even phase either Sherlock OR John. The hapless viewers on the other hand....

[(Anonymous)]

There are specific ways Moffat writes about women that are clear and repetitive when you recognise them in the shows he has creative control without Gatiss. When Sherlock has those traits, I'm gonna be thinking Moffat, because that man has a one-track mind when it comes to his fetishes about women. The third ep of new series Sherlock had it in -spades-; the first two did not as much. I enjoy the show but the repetitive ideas he applies to faux-empowered female characters just makes me eyeroll and takes me out of the show for a moment.

[(Anonymous)]

... fandom likes Mary? I was under the impression the fandom disliked her. Immensely.
Although, granted, my exposure to the fandom is limited. I've got everything Sherlock-related firmly tumblr-saviored (is that a word?), but the few posts that do slip through the cracks were always full of complaints about Mary.

[(Anonymous)]

This isn't specifically about just this secret, but I was so underwhelmed by original ACD Irene Adler after hearing about what an amaaaaazing female character she is. She's not even a character. She's a name that gets talked about by other (male) characters. Everything she does is from secondhand accounts, she's never "on screen" so to say.

[nightscale]

I like both ladies, I can certainly see the issues with Irene though but that didn't stop me from enjoying her character anyway, and I think Mary is awesome and I've really liked her from what I've seen so far(still got the third epp to watch).

[intrigueing]

Seriously side-eyeing your zero-sum-rule-of-female-character-ing here.

Especially when you're talking about a woman who Watson referred to as someone who drew people who were in trouble like birds to a lighthouse, and who was perfectly happy to lose a kajillion pounds in order to marry a guy she actually liked (hey, what other female character from Sherlock Holmes does that remind you of?)

But really, I'd side-eye your comment no matter what her personality was like. That's not how the rules of female characters work. I don't see anyone complaining about how Mycroft was written by comparing him to how Lestrade was written, do you? Of course not, because male characters are allowed to stand or fall on their own, but female characters only count if they win the competition to be the One True Smurfette, amirite?

[(Anonymous)]

Kinda OT, but my main objection to Mary was that the actress was not particularly good? She did this whole "look at how quirky I am" thing which I find incredibly obnoxious, and she had a not particularly pleasant voice. Super annoying. I wish they had cast someone else as Mary.

[(Anonymous)]

I know you're getting a lot of backlash for this, OP - but I agree with you.

Something about the way the female characters on Sherlock are written is just skeevy. I don't watch Dr. Who, but I've heard similar complaints.

And now Mary is an assassin or something?
That's the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard. That show is seriously going downhill from when I used to be a fan of it.

[(Anonymous)]

...But Irene Adler is in one story. I wouldn't even call her IMPORTANT in ACD.

[(Anonymous)]

Arguably, she is screwed over. In the original story, Milverton's killer was a woman. But Moffat had to give the power to his heroic make character

[(Anonymous)]

I'm so sick of this broken record.

[rbhudson]

Moffat sexist? What? Never!

[(Anonymous)]

Come to the last paragraph on this secret, this is what writers do. They manipulate you into (dis)liking a character, they make you feel stuff you maybe don't want to feel. In a way, they all trick us. Suspension of disbelief takes both good writing and a willing audience.

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed. I actually really liked Mary, but Irene was tremendously disappointing to me. A Scandal in Bohemia was/is my favorite ACD Holmes story, and the way they "reinterpreted" her character was baffling to me. American opera singer -> English dominatrix? What? And the throwaway line about her being a lesbian was such a blatant tacky ploy to make Sherlock seem even more supermegaperfectcool like ooh look even the lesbians fall for him, isn't he just the most perfect character you've ever seen???!!!?!?? HE DEFINITELY IS OKAY YOU HAVE TO LOVE HIM HE'S PERFECT-- But I digress. The whole thing where Sherlock escapes any lasting consequences for his actions is an unrelated issue.

Even that would've been (semi-)okay, if they hadn't utterly ruined the entire focus of her story, which was the humbling of Holmes. She doesn't totally change his opinion of women, but she does show him that women can have the kind of cleverness and mettle that he always thought was reserved for men. When BBC Irene lost (because she "fell in love", no less!), they took that away. I suppose any kind of meaningful loss or character development for the delicate blossom that is BBC Sherlock would be too much for Mofftiss to handle.