[ SECRET POST #2686 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2686 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 059 secrets from Secret Submission Post #384.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Controversial opinions

[(Anonymous)]

I think men do have actual problems (societal and institutional) that need to be fixed (and that feminism either ignores or makes worse). I also don't think the Men's Right Movement is bad, but just like feminism the assholes are the most vocal.

For the record, I am female and don't consider myself a feminist OR a Men's Rights Activist. I think both sides have valid points (and stupid points) and I wished they work together.

Re: Controversial opinions

[(Anonymous)]

This is pretty much how I feel.

Re: Controversial opinions

[(Anonymous)]

+1

Re: Controversial opinions

[(Anonymous)]

I consider myself feminist and actually agree with you. I think part of the problem is the term "Men's Rights" itself - people can't go around saying "White Rights" or "Rich People's Rights" either. It makes you look like a jerk no matter what you're actually getting at. But people forget that men actually do have struggles in society, and I think feminists sometimes forget that "equality" has the word "equal" in it.

Re: Controversial opinions

[dethtoll]

There's one fundamental flaw with this. The Men's Rights Movement as a definable activist group is decidedly pro-misogyny. It's not about "the assholes being the most vocal" because the vast majority of the MRM are the vocal assholes. It is anti-feminist, was started as a backlash against feminism, and has been listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

They do not care about men or their rights, only about oppressing women and maintaining an ideal of masculinity that many men do not adhere to.

Anyone who actually cares about how men are affected by society is a feminist, because patriarchy hurts men too (a transparent example is our treatment of gay men -- you'd think by nature of being men they should be able to do whatever they want, but noooo.)

Re: Controversial opinions

[(Anonymous)]

Yep, this. Men's shelters even try to distance themselves from the MRA movement because it makes actually making positive change for men all the more difficult.

MRAs are transphobic and homophobic, which if they were truly supporting men, they wouldn't be.

Re: Controversial opinions

[(Anonymous)]

I care about men and I don't consider myself a feminist. And where did you get your stats from? Reddit?

Re: Controversial opinions

[dethtoll]

What do you consider yourself then?

Re: Controversial opinions

[(Anonymous)]

Egalitarian maybe? Not feminist, I know that for sure.

Re: Controversial opinions

[(Anonymous)]

Except feminists have actively campaigned and helped pass laws that are detrimental for men (for no other reason than it is a law that might actually help men).

Re: Controversial opinions

[dethtoll]

Give me an example of these laws and how they have been detrimental for men.

Also, what's your RPG Codex handle?

Re: Controversial opinions

[(Anonymous)]

Yes. Thank you.

Re: Controversial opinions

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed. But I don't think they can work together. I used to think that but there's too many wild cards on both sides that will ruin it for the moderates.

People have done such a good job of calling any angry man on the internet a fedora wearing MRA (when most times they don't identify as one) that most people won't even touch their ideas with a 10 foot pole.


At the very least I do hope some of their charities get off the ground get past the label to get help for people who need it.

Re: Controversial opinions

[feotakahari]

To some degree, I think they do. I know Pervocracy links to sites like No, Seriously, What About Teh Menz?

Re: Controversial opinions

[applemagpie]

Hold up. I'm pretty sure most feminists support things like fairer custody rulings, the acknowledgment of male rape, and criticizing the social constructions of masculinity, that hurt a lot of men. I wasn't aware of the fact that supporting men's rights and women's rights is a zero sum game.

Re: Controversial opinions

[ibbity]

THE big MRM hub online, what fundamentally IS the MRM online (apart from the reddit sub, which promotes and links to it) is A Voice For Men, which is owned and operated by one Paul Elam, who has this to say about female rape victims:

"In the most severe and emphatic terms possible the answer is NO, THEY ARE NOT ASKING TO GET RAPED. They are freaking begging for it. Damn near demanding it. And all the outraged PC demands to get huffy and point out how nothing justifies or excuses rape won’t change the fact that there are a lot of women who get pummeled and pumped because they are stupid (and often arrogant) enough to walk though life with the equivalent of a I’M A STUPID, CONNIVING BITCH – PLEASE RAPE ME neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads. In my opinion their plight from being raped should draw about as much sympathy as a man who loses a wallet full of cash after leaving it laying around a bus station unattended."

Here is a link to the quote, in context, on A Voice For Men:

http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/false-rape-culture/challenging-the-etiology-of-rape/

This is the kind of person who runs and directs the MRM. Elam is a HUGE name in the movement. Want some more reasons to not be a fan of them? Here's a link to some things that the MRM regularly lies about to get more people on their side:

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/myths-of-the-manosphere-lying-about-women

Here is a deconstruction of some of the lies and inaccuracies regarding history that the MRM, particularly another of their big-name spokespersons, regularly spread:

http://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/1zs9c4/the_western_world_once_had_genuine_equality/

Again, this is the MAINSTREAM of the MRM. These are their movers and shakers. These are the people who lead the movement. They are not the lunatic fringe who misrepresent a mostly sane movement that you think they are. These ARE the movement. And I'm telling you this as someone who identifies as an egalitarian, not a feminist (I believe that men and women are and should be absolutely equal, I think that many feminists do great work, I just don't agree with everything that feminists are apparently required to.)

Re: Controversial opinions

[(Anonymous)]

May all the gods in all the pantheons bless you for this.

Re: Controversial opinions

[(Anonymous)]

holy shit that is fucking terrifying

welp, there goes my faith in humanity for the day

Re: Controversial opinions

[dethtoll]

As Jim Sterling put it, they're a bunch of "threatened, frightened monkeys." As long as trogs like this exist progressivism (feminism included) will always be necessary.

Re: Controversial opinions

[ibbity]

The weird part is that they insist that feminism is responsible for the rigid and stifling gender roles that men still often face, and at the same time they're all like EVERYTHING WILL BE PERFECT IF WE JUST RETURN SOCIETY TO ITS FORMER STATE CIRCA 1915, EXCEPT FOR WWI BECAUSE THE HIGH DEATH TOLL WAS ALL THE FAULT OF WOMEN FOR NOT GOING INTO BATTLE EXCEPT THAT WOMEN ARE TOO DELICATE AND IRRATIONAL TO BE SOLDIERS. I really do not understand how anyone can possibly get SO MUCH history completely ass-backwards.

Re: Controversial opinions

[diet_poison]

holy shit. fuck that guy. >:(

Re: Controversial opinions

[dethtoll]

But that would be gay and he might be oppressed!

Re: Controversial opinions

[darkmanifest]

That reddit link is glorious, thank you.

Re: Controversial opinions

[ariakas]

I agree with the first sentence, but the second is just demonstrably incorrect.

Re: Controversial opinions

[diet_poison]

Me too, pretty much.

I also don't think most feminists Don't Care about men's issues.