[ SECRET POST #2737 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2737 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 041 secrets from Secret Submission Post #391.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

05. http://i59.tinypic.com/xqhxft.jpg

[peablossom]

Speaking of edited, professional (sensible, even?) content...

[(Anonymous)]

OP n't afford it.

[(Anonymous)]

Your point is dumb because this is a fandom secret and while you may be trying to point out hypocrisy, fandom secrets are rarely of a publishable quality. Typos, errors, even stupidity are all allowable.

[kallanda_lee]

I agree than fanfic is for fun.

But, your post is all over the place.

Firstly, I do not know your author/friend, but just because something is published, especially if it's an e-book, doesn't mean it's actually better quality than fanfic.

Now, there's also brilliant stuff that doesn't get attention - I'm just saying publishing an e-book does not instantly make you superior to a fanfic writers.

Secondly, I only ever heard writers complain about this in relation to the discrepancy with fan artists, in the sense that it's acceptable to ask money for a fanwork, but not fanfic - and that IS somewhat justified as criticism.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't really have anything specifically to respond to in your comment. I'm a writer who made the jump to original fiction. Nobody knows, as far as they know I'm just not writing a lot of fic lately. I wanted to do this myself, not have to deal with fandom anymore (good or bad). It was hard, and it's still hard sometimes. You don't get nice comments very often, if ever. But the money is really helpful, and I love having full control of my work. It's a learning curve, though. If you want to make the jump, expect it to be harder than you think it will (but worth it, in my opinion), do as much research as you can, and be careful about reading or responding to negative reviews.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh! Then I want to ask you the question that I asked below!

Are you using your fanfic name (or any variation of it) for your original stuff? (I mean your statement implies no but I should probably make sure...)

And if not, why not?

I, uh, may be wrestling with this question at the moment.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm hoping to make that jump myself, so thank you for this. :)

[(Anonymous)]

Slightly off topic question: Does this self-publishing writer that you like publish her original stuff under her name as a fanfic author (a la Cassadra Claire) or use a second, completely different name?

...I may have been thinking about this earlier. For reasons.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not the OP, just another author. (Anon above you, actually.) I found it helpful to start out fresh. I just wanted to break out of the mold I felt like I was in, stretch myself, and not have my work compared (positively or negatively) with my earlier work. Also I was pretty fed up with fandom at the time. :) However, it took longer to establish myself and have people find my work. Don't kid yourself, it won't be easy. When you find yourself feeling lucky to have person #5 sign up for your email list, you'll definitely doubt yourself and wonder if you should've used some fandom connections. But, you have to make the right choice for you, and in the end I'm happy with what I picked.

[(Anonymous)]

Except that some of us are professional authors.

I don't really understand what you're trying to say here

[(Anonymous)]

Your friend publishes original fic that's poorly edited, so nobody deserves to be paid for their fanfiction? Those two ideas have a tenuous connection at best and it's not really the cause-and-effect relationship you seem to be suggesting.

[(Anonymous)]

Why is professional quality editing the sole criteria for writing that deserves payment? If there was a fanfic that was well edited and looked more professional than your friend's published work, would that deserve payment? I'm lost here. :(

[(Anonymous)]

How does she not have time to edit her self-published ebooks? There's no deadline there. I call bullshit on that excuse.

If they are poorly-edited, she should not expect to get paid for them. When I pay for a book, whether or not it's self-published, I am paying for a professional-level product. If she's not fully developing her stories, then her stories also do not represent work that entitles payment. Just because someone has made the leap to original fiction doesn't automatically mean they should get paid for it. Plenty of us have been slogging away for years at this shit without getting paid. Yay for her for making the leap, but it sounds like she's got a ways to go.

[ketita]

BUT FANART IS A-OK ON THE MONEYMAKING, AMIRITE?

[(Anonymous)]

I'll never understand the whole "selling fanfiction" thing anyway.

[riddian]

Can somebody please explain this secret to me? I read halfway through thinking it was building up to a "I like this author's work but wish it was better and/or maybe had a fandom despite its hasty, typo-ridden nature" and then it turned into something about how people should or shouldn't get paid for fanfiction... ?????

story is king!!1

[(Anonymous)]

Here's the thing nobody who's a writer wants to hear. Nobody cares if you write like the next great literary talent or not. Nobody. Cares.

Okay, a tiny fraction of readers read only for great literary work, to savor sentences and complex paragraphs and all that.

Most people read for entertainment, for characters and stories and plots that keep them up at night -- and distract them from their real life problems and worries.

So yeah, some folks complain about the "poorly written" bestsellers all the time, but if the story is keeping people awake, it's actually better by some measures (including $$) than a "superbly written" story that's putting people to sleep.

I don't know why fan fiction comes into this secret at all, to be honest. The OP is a fan of an author who has poorly edited work. Why do they keep reading it, even when they have to pay for that privilege? Because of story. Because they fall in love with the characters.

Just. Something I wanted to get off my chest.

I don't understand this secret, really, but...

[fingalsanteater]

I HATE when my fiancé reads my fic and is like "Why don't you write for real and get paid?" NO. I DON'T CARE TO GET PAID. I write what I write for fun and I'm not interested in profiting from it. Fuck off and let me write Obama giving Boehner a handjob.

[(Anonymous)]

So your friend's excuse for a lack of editing is...?

I've ready plenty of fanfics (that the authors most assuredly were not paid for) that still were polished and well-edited. If someone who does it entirely for free and for fun has the capability to edit their work properly, I really don't see how someone who expects to get paid for their work can't manage the same thing.

[(Anonymous)]

What are you even trying to say? All I'm getting from this is that if your friend can't edit her own books properly, straw-men fanfic authors need to stop whining about being paid for their work. Like, what.

[silverr]

Fun can still be spelled correctly, can't it?

Fanfiction is everything? No, EVERYTHING IS CHIPS

[(Anonymous)]

Stop trying to make 'Fanfiction is everything' happen, it's not gonna happen.

[(Anonymous)]

Bullshit!

You know what, just because she's publishing in an ebook format (which pretty much any Joe-Blow can do on Amazon nowadays), doesn't inherently make her shit better than any of the fan-fiction author's I've read (some of whom have made the leap from fan-fiction to commercial fiction). That it's poorly edited just means she's too frigging lazy to look or ask for help. There are plenty of places that will edit and be grammar nazi's on original fiction as well as fan-fiction with as little rewards as a thank you in the author's notes.

And there are plenty of newer publishing companies that are very friendly to fan-fiction authors because they appreciate that quality can be inspired by many things, and the fact that someone has written fan-fiction shouldn't make them a pariah in the publishing world. Story Spring Publishing is one such company.

Oh My God, This Is Long...

[(Anonymous)]

Fiction is a tricky thing. A lot people are inspired by actual stories to create their own works. It could be a simple moment, a character dynamic, or a story arch, but either way, authors have to have some inspiration to get an idea for a story. Sometimes it's from a real life situation, though, which I supposed wouldn't really apply here.

Star Wars was directly inspired by Akira Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress. If you see the notes on the first draft, it follows the movie plot pretty closely with few changes. With every sequential draft it veers further and further away from the Hidden Fortress and becomes more it's own movie. Now, I know George Lucas isn't the best example, but it's the only concrete one I can think of right now that goes with the point I'm going to make.

For me, the difference between fan fiction and original fiction is taking an idea and making it your own. In one of my creative writing classes, my professor told us that bad authors borrow, good writers steal. This mentality has come up in several fiction writing books I've read as well, and the reasoning is something like this:

If you borrow something from a friend, you generally try to keep it in the same condition as when you got it. If you steal something, you can do whatever you want with it, it's "yours" now. It sounds bad, but it's true. When someone is inspired by something, they'll take the idea and work with it and over time the story will change to reflect that personal author. Thus when you take an idea and make it your own, it becomes it's own story. If the author does it right, you shouldn't even be able to tell where the initial idea came from.

Again, fan fiction is tricky. If you do a good job, you don't have the freedom to really put your own stamp on the story to keep the characters in character and the world rules in tact. Thus there is never really the opportunity to fully make the story your own. I have nothing against fan fiction, I think it's a great medium for people to be able to read about their favorite characters and series outside of the source material. But I do not think it should be paid for. I understand why some might want to be paid for all the hard work they put into the stories they write, because writing is hard. Writing well is very, very hard. And people need money, but nevertheless, I still think that fan fiction should always be free.

Before everyone is all like "But Sherlock Holmes sequels!" "Jane Austen sequels" "Movie Adaptations" blah blah blah. Sherlock Holmes and Jane Austen's works are in the public domain. And every Jane Austen sequel I've read has been crap. Movie Adaptations and tie in novels, while also crap, are authorized by the people who own the rights to the characters and most likely solicited by them to get more money. Wouldn't it be cool, though, if like a movie or something encouraged people to write fan fiction and then put it on the official site or something? Or even said, screw it, everyone can write for these characters and publish what they like and make money off of it? Like Snakes on a Plane did with T-Shirts? That would actually be pretty cool... But I digress.

It's probably obvious that I would at some time like to write professionally from both my mentality and my mention above of taking classes on creative writing. It is what I'm getting my Masters in, and I do want to write my own works eventually. Coming from that standpoint, I think if anyone ever loved any of my characters or stories to write fan fiction I would be the most flattered person in the world and supremely happy. If they wanted money for it, though, I would be upset. I wish I wouldn't be, but I would. It would be like borrowing my characters, characters I breathed life into, that I know inside and out, and claiming them as their own, and that makes me sad and angry (sangry).

So that's kind of where I'm at. I know, no one cares, but after seeing so many of these secrets, I had to say something. Or rather... a lot. Sorry for the length.

I know not everyone agrees with me, and that's okay. I know this whole tirade probably upset some people, or that someone else might have actually said all this, or that no one cares, but I had to get this off my chest. If at least to add my perspective to the mix of opinions.

Lastly, for people who think that editing is simply grammar and spelling mistakes, it is not. DEAR LORD, it is not. I constantly story edit for my friends and if a story editor does a good job, (which I try to do and probably don't succeed as much as I'd like) it is tiring and difficult. It is checking that character motivation is clear, making sure the plot is logical, making sure the flow of the story is right, that everything happens for a reason and not just because the author feels like it, that every awesome moment is earned and not just because the author thinks it would be cool, that the dialogue is natural, and so much more all while keeping true to the author's vision and not trying to put your own viewpoint into the world. To do that, I always force the author to come up with their own solutions and never tell them what I would do because I am a different person and write differently. I know some people think that might be too much, but every person I have ever helped, while they might have HATED me during the process, when we were finished, they were more pleased with their story than ever before. Because for most people, writing is hard, but editing is harder, and to truly get the best story, you need outside input.

Okay, lastly, for real, I will say that there is a painfully large amount of fiction that could stand with a good editing. There are very few books I read nowadays that doesn't constantly set off my editing sense. It's like this annoying "ping, ping, ping" every few paragraphs... But I will admit I am very hard on literature. I will also admit I can still enjoy a book if the story is good enough.

Done for real.