[ SECRET POST #2753 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2753 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 016 secrets from Secret Submission Post #393.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

08. http://i.imgur.com/V9YE2UZ.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

what works in fiction =/= reality

[(Anonymous)]

So... what? What's the alternative?

[(Anonymous)]

I think the term mainpain was created by fans who want to uphold the stereotypes that men should not show emotion without looking like they are upholding stereotypes.

[(Anonymous)]

It's kinda distressing how much fandom does this sort of thing.

[(Anonymous)]

That is the exact opposite of what "manpain" is.

Manpain usually refers to male characters who, despite any amount of constant terrible things they do, are portrayed positively by the canon and have all of their actions justified simply because they're sad and have sad backstories and that girl turned him down that one time.

It does not refer to male characters who show emotions.

See:
Any male villain main character in OUaT
Supernatural
Vampire Diaries
Basically a lot of things.

[(Anonymous)]

I was under the impression the term "manpain" was about being dismissive of men in general, not saying men can't be emotional. I don't exactly use the term, but it seems to me it comes more from the "god, stop giving men attention/making everything about men" mindset than anything else.

(And that's not exactly a mindset I disagree with.)

[(Anonymous)]

I don't mind manpain. I mind it when writers use it as an excuse to justify all the dick things the character does, and expects us to be sympathetic.

[peablossom]

It's prevalence is what makes it obnoxious.

[ariakas]

Yeah, this. If it were less used I wouldn't mind seeing it now and again. But it's practically the go-to rationalization for the actions of the protagonist in violent media these days, especially the "dark", "gritty" variety.

[intrigueing]

The key to manpain is how the narrative treats it, I think, not how the character feels/behaves. Taking it super-duper seriously and acting like the guy's pain is the most important thing in the universe is irritating.

And fwiw, the guy acknowledging that he's acting self-centered-ly/dickishly helps a lot:

[silvereriena]

What is this from?

[a_potato]

You kinda nail it.

[scrubber]

Didn't we have a thread a while ago that discussed what manpain was?

http://fandomsecrets.dreamwidth.org/1034349.html?thread=760411245#cmt760411245

Hint: It's not anytime a man shows emotion.

[grausam]

well, you described the difference yourself.
the writers shifting the "pain" and the screen time on the guy on expense of female is manpain. Making an arc about e.g losing a child all about the pain of the father, while leaving out the realistic reaction of the mother, is manpain.


A guy reacting realistically is NOT manpain.
it's annoying when it gets used otherwise, but manpain is still more annoying.

[(Anonymous)]

Why would that second one be manpain? If the main character is the father (or the arc is about him), there is no obligation whatsoever to bring up other characters.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, yeah, the thing about "manpain" is that it IS real pain. On a character level, they're (usually) not doing anything wrong by feeling... But I have seen times when a character makes it All About Them, and so makes the true victim's pain into an accessory of their own. (This can be rather glaring and distracting when the victim isn't dead... but everyone is concerned about the guy.) That is selfishness on a character-to-character level, and why shouldn't fans criticize that?

[anonymous4]

Manpain doesn't mean 'pain experienced by a man', though.

Manpain is when a character's wife (or husband)/partner/child/friend is harmed and the character says "Waaaaaah, you've hurt ME!" instead of "Waaaaaah, you hurt THEM!"

And it's uncomfortable to read/watch it, even when you can't quite put your finger on what's wrong.

[(Anonymous)]

This is a really good explanation.

[(Anonymous)]

THIS. this exactly. i wish more people used this definition.

the thing that makes me so uncomfortable is that it's ALL about them, and not about the other characters either. the other characters become mere cardboard cutouts to be killed off. no thought is given to the pain of the loved ones.

and it makes the protagonist come across as selfish and childish. this is someone we're supposed to sympathise with, but dealing with grief in this way (ESPECIALLY when the death of loved ones is something everyone has to deal with in life), serves to alienate the audience from the character.

[ariakas]

Criticism of "manpain" as motivator isn't about the "character". Characters don't exist in reality. They have no motivations or desires or feelings aside from the ones given to them by the writer. It's criticism of the writer for falling into an over-used, brainless trope.

[(Anonymous)]

It should be used to describe the writing, though I'm now seeing a lot of people just using it to describe angsty male characters in general, regardless of the quality of writing.

[(Anonymous)]

"Manpain" has probably gone the way of "Mary Sue", with people throwing it around so much.

[cloud_riven]

Oh whoops I totally commented on 6 instead of this one since they sound a bit similar. Ah well, same-ish secret.

[(Anonymous)]

Where does manpain exist? Is it something that happens in fan fiction? I've heard so many people complain about it, but I've never come across it. I write original fiction where the protagonist is often a white man dealing with stuff, and stuff like this makes me nervous that people are going to write off my stories as manpain even though from reading about it here, I wouldn't say it is. But it's probably a thin line, considering how every OC nowadays is called a Mary Sue even when there's no base for it...