[ SECRET POST #348 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #348 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 100 secrets from Secret Submission Post #050.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, 0 not!secrets, 0 not!fandom, [ 1 2 ] repeats, [ 1 ] too big.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Thursday, December 20th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[forchancookie.livejournal.com]

7. Walt Disney was human too. He's entitled to his mistakes. I still love his vision of a place for people to go and just enjoy the magic.

9. Woo hoo! And GL comes through for another fan ^_^

28. *chuckles* I don't have a problem with the occasional drabble for practice or a challenge or whatever, but if that's all you can put out, well, I just wonder why people bother? Feel free to comment drabble writers.

30. [insert obligatory "what have you contributed?" comment] Oh, so sorry that yaoi is not good enough for you -_-

39. Fandom is so fickle! ;_;

[case]

Re: 28 -- but you could kinda ask the same thing to novel writers: if novels are the only things they can put out, why do they bother? Versatility is good, but does that mean the other people should stop? (Not really a drabble writer myself, but hey)

[forchancookie.livejournal.com]

I'm totally not following here. Novel seems to be set up as the top of the literary ladder. People aspire to write novels. Novels inspire people to pick them up and read (those that like reading, for some, nothing will inspire them to pick up a book.) Besides, most novelists also produce short stories, which is pretty much the equivalent of your average fanfic. They do have variety. They're just not spewing out half formed ideas left and write in paragraphs shorter than this one. I prefer my ideas fully formed and realized, not in aborted form.

[norrowa.livejournal.com]

Except... that's not what a good drabble is. A good drable is either a large idea condensed into a very short form -- and effectively so, so that the reader is left going "wow, how on earth did they manage to so truly capture something like that in such a short space?". Alternately, sometimes a drabble is a smaller idea -- and what's wrong with that? ::shrugs:: Not everything needs to be a novel.

[case]

That's opinion, though -- sure, general public seems to agree that the novel is the top of the ladder, but meh, I usually read full-length novels and find myself thinking "man, this coulda been written in half the words, there are so many unnecessary details." I guess I prefer my ideas fully formed and realized, just with all the stuff that's not completely necessary cut out of it. (And I think most drabble-writers write more than drabbles, too, but I could be wrong.)

But -- maybe saying it this way is better? -- that first comment kinda sounded like you were saying blockbuster movies are the top of the film ladder, so people trying to make meaningful five-minute shorts should stop.

[coloredink.livejournal.com]

I feel compelled to point out that in the publishing world, short stories are well-on nigh unpublishable, and they pay crap: it's not unusual for magazines to pay half a cent or even a quarter of a cent per word for a short story. (Excluding, say, publications such as the New Yorker--but then, if you're published in the New Yorker, I doubt money's a problem.) The reason novels are the top of the literary ladder is because a) more people read them and b) you might ostensibly be able to eat, if you've published a novel.

That said, I think the correlation between word count and quality has to do with how long that story needs to be. A lot of writers, not understanding this, try to squash stories that need 40,000 words into 400, or they'll tell only 2,000 words worth of a story that's really 20,000 words long. It all depends on the shape and structure of the story.

[forchancookie.livejournal.com]

BTW, what do most people consider to be a drabble? I tend to confine my drabbles to 100 words.

[candy--chan.livejournal.com]

I usually think of drabbles as being one hundred words, yes :)

[rhymed.livejournal.com]

I usually consider a drabble anything from 100ish - 500ish words. Though it's certainly a fun challenge to write drabbles that are EXACTLY 100 words, no more no less.

[candy--chan.livejournal.com]

28. Speaking as someone who has worked at both ends of the spectrum (I have a couple of fics that are in the 80K to 100K range, as well as a lot of shorter one-shot fics), sometimes it's nice to just take a break from those long, involved works and write something short and light.

It's also a common exercise in a lot of creative writing classes: write a complete story in a certain number of words. Quite frankly, I've seen some one or two hundred word drabbles that have more thought and meaning put into them than some "epic" fics. I don't see how length should matter at all, really--a good idea is a good idea, no matter the length.

[forchancookie.livejournal.com]

I write drabbles too. I just write other things as well. It's the drabble only people that I wonder about. It seems that more often they're not writing self contained scene-lets, but rather parts of a bigger whole they didn't care to realize. So I'm not saying that there can't be quality drabbles. I just wonder at the lack of variety of some people I suppose.

[candy--chan.livejournal.com]

It's possible to do both. I write and enjoy both short-fic and epics. One of my favorite authors is the queen of short fics, and she can say more in a hundred words than some authors can say in a thousand. She's also done a few longer works, and they're just as good. Most of my friends do both, though, and neither format bothers me.

Another nice thing about drabbles and short fics is that they're done. How many work-in-progress epics are there out there? Or "chapter" fics that post the first chapter and then never update again?

[kinneas.livejournal.com]

I get what you're saying. There's nothing wrong with drabbles themselves, just the people who do them exclusively. And I agree completely.

People are going on and on about how difficult it is to do a good, cohesive, and meaningful drabble, and I can see where they're coming from, but have you ever attempted to write an novel? It's not even comparable. Continuity in style, atmosphere, tone, plot, characterization, not to mention pacing, can be fucking RIDICULOUS if your aspirations are high. I mean honestly people, be realistic.

[forchancookie.livejournal.com]

Thank you. ^_^ Like I've said, I do write drabbles. I think they can be fun and challenging, but I don't write them exclusively.

It can be all these things that people are defending, difficult, artistic, etc. But hey, sometimes it isn't! Sometimes these people aren't trying. And you're right, you can't compare it to a novel. There's too many other factors.

I think a lot of these people are taking it down to a personal level. "Well I like them, so fuck you!" >_> Yeah, I like them too, and yest, some of them are awesome, but no, I don't feel that I should have to respect people who choose to spit them by the dozen.

[kinneas.livejournal.com]

People here sometimes like to look for ways to be personally offended.

I'm gonna dissent even more by saying I don't even really like drabbles. I don't have a problem with them and recognize them as a relatively substantial art form that requires thought and effort, but I seriously don't like them. How obnoxious is it to think oh ths premise sounds awesome, open the file, and it's just a hundred damn words.

So unfulfilling D:

Give me at least a decent length short story anyday.

[ronsard.livejournal.com]

I personally feel like a cheater every time I write a drabble, mostly because I know I lack the aptitude for it and will produce sub par work. I have no problem with good drabbles - the problem is writing a good drabble is pretty damn hard, and of the million tidbits that glut the Internet everyday, maybe less than 10% can be considered "good". I also have no problem with a known good writer of drabbles putting out nothing but shorts. I think the real issue is skill.

[forchancookie.livejournal.com]

Aww, don't feel like a cheater. Just think of it as practice. I think of them as word puzzles. How can I arrange these 100 words to make them do something neat? ^_^

It's funny that we talk about all these people shoving out drabbles like there's not tomorrow, I really don't remember this going on in past years. It seems like livejournal has sort of made it more acceptable to post them because you didn't waste people's time with this crap on mailing lists. It's like, since you were putting it in someone's mailbox, you had to think out what you were posting. I think it's a lost art, the art of using your head ya know ^_^;;

[ronsard.livejournal.com]

It makes me wonder if any of the staunch proponents of drabbles would be thrilled to receive a drabble for, say, their yuletide exchange gift. Come on, people, just admit it's nice when a writer puts effort into something that obviously doesn't look like it took ten minutes to crank out.

The only problem I have with people who put out ten drabbles a day without maintaining a distinct general level of quality is that I feel they just can't wait to get something done and throw it out there. I totally agree with you that most fic is essentially a bid for attention (and anyone who doesn't want to admit that really needs to re-examine), but that's an urge that needs to be fought. It's the same thing with longfic authors who put out crappy little chapters for reviews - the total word count adds up, but the fic itself isn't any better for it.

[roseargent.livejournal.com]

Comparing drabbles to plot-based prose is pointless.

Drabbles are best compared to free verse poetry. The idea is to paint an evocative picture in a few short words.

*shrug* I used to write longer fic more than anything else. A lot of it was crap. Now I write the occasional longer fic, and a lot of shorter stuff. A lot of it is still crap. They're different beasts entirely, and both depend on how well you do them.

[forchancookie.livejournal.com]

It's a good analogy. A lot of word choice does (or should) go into such a brief piece. After all, if you only have 100 words to work with, you need just the right one.

[suzanami.livejournal.com]

Your arguments are fair enough. I think it's just plain a question of taste.

I don't even like epic fic. Actually, I hate it. I've read GOOD epics, to be sure... But I'd rather read a "decent" drabble than a "great" epic.

I'm interested in fanfic so that I can enjoy my favorite characters. I like drabbles because they focus on a moment with my favorite characters without bludgeoning me over the head with PLOTPLOTPLOTandsomemorePLOT. The plot is not what interests me.

The original series has enough plot for me, anyway.

My favorite drabbles are the well-written ones that connect me with my favorite characters.
I like character introspection. I like seeing interactions that we didn't get to witness in canon. I like capturing a little moment in my favorite character's day-to-day life. I like drabbles because they make me feel intimate with a character, and while Eureka hanging the laundry out to dry and thinking about her children is sweet and tender and heartwarming, if it goes over ~600 words, it's gonna get really monotonous and pointless.

Also, I hate having to stop in the middle of a story, be it a book, fanfic, whatever. It just... it really puts me off. And I don't have time to sit in front of the computer to read 20 chapters when I have other things to do.

[alexander.livejournal.com]

>D; ha ha re: 28, I am actually incapable of writing anything that is 'long' without it turning into some boring piece of crap -- which is also my style preference considering I favor emotional response over plot! But yah, I almost exclusively drabble because I happen to like what comes out of my drabbles and I don't like my longer fic. And writing is about wanting to write... so I'm not exactly sure where the "but if that's all you can put out, well, I just wonder why people bother?" comes from XD; Do you mean why bother sharing with other people? Or?

[forchancookie.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I didn't really clarify what people were bothering with did I? I suppose it's along the lines of "Why bother mass producing drabbles and nothing else." I'm just one of those people who believes in variety. If you're a one trick pony, well, you're boring. Most of those people have just stopped growing because they can't be bothered to expand their horizons. It bugs me. There's probably a bit of "Why bother posting?" mixed in there as well since I don't like tripping over ten drabbles in a row by the same person in separate posts on a comm every day. Stop...seriously x_X

Personally, I can only spare so much emotional response for something that has less words than my average conversation. 100 words rarely supplies more than a cheap sucker punch. I'd rather read a few more paragraphs of set up to get me actually involved and caring than just sit there and devour little sound bites of emotion.

As for writing being about writing...sure, but I write in my checkbook every day and I wouldn't bother posting that online. There's a difference between composing a story and writing down a few raw lines of whatever.

[rhymed.livejournal.com]

Joining in the hoard of defensive drabble writers in this post...

As a writer of drabbles, short fiction, and novels-in-progress, I really don't understand how people don't see drabbles as "valid" or worthy of "respect". Maybe you all just haven't written or read any good drabbles? Yeah, sometimes they're best left as writing exercises, but I've read pieces, both in fandom and out, of even less than 100 words that left me speechless with how much emotion or how strong an image so few words can convey.

[mysticnocturne.livejournal.com]

Re: 28, I adore drabbles, so I have to disagree with you. That is not, however, what this comment is for.

Hey, drabble authors. I have no problem with you sticking up for yourselves, but please, oh, please come up with a new argument. You've been doing absolutely nothing but whining about the skill it takes to write good drabbles. I think she gets the point. Seriously.