fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #405 ]

[ SECRET POST #405 ]

⌈ Secret Post #405 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Last day to submit for next week!

Happy Valentines Day to everyone! ♥♥♥

Also, just a note: Dude, bitmaps are HUGE. Please don't submit secrets in bitmap format. I redid one today to a jpeg, because I was feeling nice, but we will make a special section down in the not posted secrets in the future for bitmaps. We're trying to make the page as easy to load for everyone as we can. Thanks!

Secrets Left to Post: 4 pages, 81 secrets from Secret Submission Post #058.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, [ 1 2 3 4 ] not!secrets, 0 not!fandom, [ 1 2 3 4 5 ] too big, [ 1 ] ...the hell?.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Friday, February 15th, 2008.
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I'm going to chime in a little and say that we did talk a lot about Phoenix and his lack of conscious thought process about the situation (there was a lot of kicking and screaming going on in chapters four and five in trying to balance a need for him to self-reflect at least a little and yet still sound convincingly like Phoenix), but that's based on our take from him in the game. Phoenix really doesn't seem to be particularly aware of how deep his emotions can sometimes run and he didn't strike us as really eager to delve into himself that way, either, so...

We were trying to set up things subtly and subliminally through the chapters, but if that didn't get across, I guess that was our bad. If it makes sense, we were kind of approaching this from the take more of making Phoenix confront what had built already in the games than demonstrating the actual process of him falling for Edgeworth.

Thanks for your thoughts, though.

I understand what you're saying, but what doesn't make sense is that you take the time to make Phoenix think useless sarcastic comments, and then when it comes to more serious and important stuff, we only get part of what he's thinking. How are thoughts about Maya's appetite more important than thoughts about his feelings? I think I'm missing something here.

And saying that you're trying to make it look like he "acts without thinking" doesn't make any sense, because you DO make him think, but it's not clear at all and we have to guess everything. It wouldn't be as bad if it was obvious, but there's a lot of things in there that I've read over a hundred times and I still don't get what it's supposed to mean. And saying it's a "lack of conscious thought process" doesn't cut it either. I mean, after chapter six, I certainly hope he's realized his feelings for Edgeworth. But we never see HOW he came to that realization.

Also, I feel like you throw a lot of random stuff in there just for the hell of it. Either that, or you incorporate some elements and then you just forget about them. It's not something you notice on the first read, but after reading the fic so many times, some things really made me go "WTF? What was the point of this?".

And if you really have that many people going over the fic and there's still that many mistakes, you seriously need better betas. There's always tons of missing words, repetitions, sentences that don't make any sense, and even the same word used twice in a row.

And like I already said, I think the story has a lot of potential, and it sucks that all that stuff is ruining it. And I think it's unfortunate that you don't seem to realize it due to all the praise and lack of real criticism. And because of that, I really feel like I'd get flamed if I said it openly.

Phoenix can afford to be open with himself when making internal cracks about Maya, but he doesn't know how to be completely open with himself when it comes to those more difficult emotional situations.

See, that doesn't make any sense to me. After his reaction at the end of Chapter three, I thought it was normal that he wasn't thinking straight at first cause he was in shock, but considering he's never been with a man before, I think you'd expect him to freak out and ask himself tons of questions about what happened, and what he's going to do. But the only obvious thing in Chapter four is that he's confused, but we have NO IDEA what he's thinking. At all. And that kind of kills it, in my opinion. This has nothing to do with him being open with himself or not. We're in his head. If he's confused, we're supposed to know what he's thinking about, but we don't.

for example, Chapter Four, realizing that he didn't want to lose the companionship like Edgeworth or in Chapter Five realizing there was no other place anywhere he'd rather be than next to him

I got that, but it's still not enough. To be honest, the first three chapters were okay, but it all fell apart with Chapter four. When he goes and sees Edgeworth at his office, we have no idea what he's thinking about the whole time they're talking. At the end, I honestly had no clue what he was trying to say. Did he feel bad for the way he reacted? Was he trying to understand what exactly happened? Was he telling Edgeworth he just wants to be friends? It was all very confusing. And you're probably going to say he was confused and didn't even know himself what he was trying to say, but if that's the case, why did he even go to see Edgeworth in the first place? If someone is that confused, they'd take some time to think about the situation first. Even Phoenix.

but again, if that didn't get across, I suppose it's our bad.

Well then, stop saying that and do something about it. If all that stuff didn't get across, it's kinda bad, isn't it? When you write, some things might be obvious to you, but that doesn't mean they're obvious to the readers. And trust me, a lot of stuff in there doesn't make any sense to me. And I know I'm not the only one.

See, that doesn't make any sense to me. After his reaction at the end of Chapter three, I thought it was normal that he wasn't thinking straight at first cause he was in shock, but considering he's never been with a man before, I think you'd expect him to freak out and ask himself tons of questions about what happened, and what he's going to do. But the only obvious thing in Chapter four is that he's confused, but we have NO IDEA what he's thinking. At all. And that kind of kills it, in my opinion. This has nothing to do with him being open with himself or not. We're in his head. If he's confused, we're supposed to know what he's thinking about, but we don't.

What we talked about in regards to this chapter is that Phoenix is explicitly trying to avoid thinking about it, which we tried to get across through his interaction with Maya, trying to get rid of the beer stain, and then trying to absorb himself in his work. Even after the talk with Iris after he realizes he has to do something, he's still not thinking in explicit terms as to what that is--he's not ready to yet. So he just charges in, which goes back to what musouka mentioned above about acting without thinking.

We really did talk about all of this as far as our portrayal went. I'm sorry it didn't work for you, but.

I got that, but it's still not enough. To be honest, the first three chapters were okay, but it all fell apart with Chapter four. When he goes and sees Edgeworth at his office, we have no idea what he's thinking about the whole time they're talking. At the end, I honestly had no clue what he was trying to say. Did he feel bad for the way he reacted? Was he trying to understand what exactly happened? Was he telling Edgeworth he just wants to be friends? It was all very confusing. And you're probably going to say he was confused and didn't even know himself what he was trying to say, but if that's the case, why did he even go to see Edgeworth in the first place? If someone is that confused, they'd take some time to think about the situation first. Even Phoenix.

I think that's just going to come down to a fundamental disagreement in characterization. You're right in that we were trying to get at that he himself was confused and wasn't sure what he went there to say, but we did think that he would have went once he gained a better understanding of the apparent urgency of the situation--indirectly at first through Iris and then directly on seeing Edgeworth's state of panic in itself.

Well then, stop saying that and do something about it. If all that stuff didn't get across, it's kinda bad, isn't it? When you write, some things might be obvious to you, but that doesn't mean they're obvious to the readers. And trust me, a lot of stuff in there doesn't make any sense to me. And I know I'm not the only one.

What would you like us to do? I mean, I think you've made your feelings clear, and I understand them and I'm sorry you don't like some of the choices we've made, but as I said, I think this is just coming down a basic disagreement on how Phoenix operates.

You're right in that we were trying to get at that he himself was confused and wasn't sure what he went there to say, but we did think that he would have went once he gained a better understanding of the apparent urgency of the situation

Where is the understanding, then? We don't see it. Him talking to Iris doesn't tell us anything about what he's thinking.

What would you like us to do?

Get better betas. Cause obviously, either the ones you have right now suck, or they're not being honest with you. If you read something a hundred times and still can't figure out what it means, there's something wrong. Your betas shouldn't be afraid to tell you when something doesn't make sense. Also, the obvious grammatical errors.

I mean, I think you've made your feelings clear, and I understand them and I'm sorry you don't like some of the choices we've made, but as I said, I think this is just coming down a basic disagreement on how Phoenix operates.

This has nothing to do with it, actually. I'm perfectly fine with the fact that Phoenix goes and sees Edgeworth even though he has no idea what he's going to say, but EXPLAIN. That's just an assumption I made cause every other way to look at it didn't make sense, and I shouldn't have to do that. We have to SEE he's confused, not suppose he is.

Where is the understanding, then? We don't see it. Him talking to Iris doesn't tell us anything about what he's thinking.

The idea was the the key came when it hit him how hard it was for Iris to deal with her feelings for Phoenix all that time, which he went on to connect with Edgeworth--and noting that he 'wasn't the greatest at noticing things'. We did try to play it subtle. What Phoenix says does actually reflect in part what he's thinking.

Get better betas. Cause obviously, either the ones you have right now suck, or they're not being honest with you. If you read something a hundred times and still can't figure out what it means, there's something wrong. Your betas shouldn't be afraid to tell you when something doesn't make sense. Also, the obvious grammatical errors.

It's interesting, because--not to undermine your point, because if it genuinely confused you I think it's a valid one--but other people have actually mentioned specifically appreciating what the Iris scene got across without us explaining it, so frankly it's a little bewildering--different strokes for different folks, perhaps?

This has nothing to do with it, actually. I'm perfectly fine with the fact that Phoenix goes and sees Edgeworth even though he has no idea what he's going to say, but EXPLAIN. That's just an assumption I made cause every other way to look at it didn't make sense, and I shouldn't have to do that. We have to SEE he's confused, not suppose he is.

Phoenix's mindset shifted after the phonecall with Iris, and he was focusing solely on just getting to Edgeworth, even though he admitted he had no idea how things would turn out from there. His feelings were still confused, but I thought that shift was fairly clear from the last line in the office scene and his attitude when first confronting Edgeworth with no plan. Maybe not?

It's interesting, because--not to undermine your point, because if it genuinely confused you I think it's a valid one--but other people have actually mentioned specifically appreciating what the Iris scene got across without us explaining it, so frankly it's a little bewildering--different strokes for different folks, perhaps?

I wasn't talking about the Iris scene specifically. There's just a lot of stuff in there that doesn't make any sense. A lot of sentences could be interpreted in a hundred different ways, and also a lot of them just make you go "WHUT?". Also, if some of the phrasing is confusing, the betas should tell you. And a lot of things were really REALLY obvious, and I just can't believe you and all the betas missed them, even after going over the chapter several times, while I noticed right away. It doesn't make sense.

His feelings were still confused, but I thought that shift was fairly clear from the last line in the office scene and his attitude when first confronting Edgeworth with no plan. Maybe not?

It really wasn't.

I wasn't talking about the Iris scene specifically. There's just a lot of stuff in there that doesn't make any sense.

Such as?

A lot of sentences could be interpreted in a hundred different ways, and also a lot of them just make you go "WHUT?". Also, if some of the phrasing is confusing, the betas should tell you. And a lot of things were really REALLY obvious, and I just can't believe you and all the betas missed them, even after going over the chapter several times, while I noticed right away. It doesn't make sense.

Well, apparently we all did. Oops.

It really wasn't.

I'm sorry it didn't work for you, then.

Such as?

- The whole scene in the office in Chapter four, cause we have no idea what Phoenix is trying to say the whole time, and we don't know what he thinks about Edgeworth's feelings. Also, in Chapter five, Phoenix says something about "yelling at each other in the office", but the whole conversation in the office didn't sound like they were yelling at all.

- The part where Edgeworth makes Phoenix wait for an hour before going to the restaurant, only to find out later that nothing happened apparently.

- In Chapter three, was Edgeworth drunk driving? He must not have been sober to decide to kiss Phoenix. And he's only had one beer at Phoenix's place, which implies that he wasn't in a condition to drive his car when they got back from the restaurant. Plus, he drives again when he leaves.

- Also, you should never end your sentences with ellipses if it's not something that's obvious. We can't keep guessing what you're trying to say.

There's more, but those are the obvious ones.

Well, apparently we all did. Oops.

Yeah, that's really the right attitude to adopt. I thought you took crit well? I'm just trying to help, you know.

Re: 59

akatokuro.livejournal.com - 2008-02-16 00:05 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 59

(Anonymous) - 2008-02-16 02:36 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 59

musouka-manga.livejournal.com - 2008-02-16 17:03 (UTC) - Expand

Threadjumping to say that you've received some amazing con crit here. I can understand that you might feel a little defensive so do give it a few days and read over their comments again. Be as objective as you can. You will most likely find that they have some good points.

From an outsider's perspective, the anon hasn't been rude at all. They've been direct and honest. This is exactly the way my beta readers speak to me and it always leads to an improvement in my work.

If you get con crit in the future, it's always best not to reply immediately. Give yourself some time so that you can look at the crit as objectively as possible.

Re: 59

dancesontrains.livejournal.com - 2008-02-15 20:48 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 59

(Anonymous) - 2008-02-16 14:03 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 59

cftfic.livejournal.com - 2008-02-15 21:35 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 59

(Anonymous) - 2008-02-16 14:08 (UTC) - Expand

Get better betas. Cause obviously, either the ones you have right now suck, or they're not being honest with you.

Excuse me, I think this is uncalled for. I don't mind you discussing the merits of the fic itself, but the onus of writing belongs on the writers. You have been repeatedly rude about our betas, and I think you need to stop being so insulting about a situation you're not privy to.

I'm not trying to be rude, and no offense to the betas, but I really think they're not being honest with you and I think that's unfortunate. There really shouldn't be that many mistakes in a betaed fic. I've read unbetaed stuff that had less mistakes, seriously. And it's unfortunate cause it's really well written as a whole, but seeing mistakes like those just make you want to stop reading sometimes.

So wait a second. Our betas are being dishonest with us because they don't catch all of our grammar errors? Most fic chapters are half the length of ours, if that, and while that's no excuse for sloppy mistakes, it does factor into things.

And I've already said that this is something I'll try to catch in the future, so I'm not really sure why we're still on the beta issue.

Re: 59

(Anonymous) - 2008-02-15 11:17 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 59

musouka-manga.livejournal.com - 2008-02-15 11:37 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 59

(Anonymous) - 2008-02-15 15:13 (UTC) - Expand

Beta here.

I'm being perfectly honest with Musouka and Raelle when I beta, just for the record. My own writing tends to be very stylized and loose grammatically, so perhaps I simply don't see the errors you talk about. But I disagree with some of the errors you're pointing out; the stuff you mention makes sense to me when I read it.

Re: 59

(Anonymous) - 2008-02-16 03:33 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 59

cftfic.livejournal.com - 2008-02-16 03:40 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 59

(Anonymous) - 2008-02-16 03:52 (UTC) - Expand

And saying it's a "lack of conscious thought process" doesn't cut it either. I mean, after chapter six, I certainly hope he's realized his feelings for Edgeworth. But we never see HOW he came to that realization.

I'd say the turning point we were aiming for was back in chapter five, actually, with the simple realization that he wanted Edgeworth around--that the thought of him not being there left him feeling empty inside, along with the way he pulled Edgeworth back towards him at the very end of the chapter.

And I feel bad about saying that, since an author's work should stand on their own, but Phoenix does explicitly thinks about how Edgeworth not being there would make him feel.

And I think it's unfortunate that you don't seem to realize it due to all the praise and lack of real criticism.

But most of what you've mentioned are deliberate choices in style that Raelle and I have debated and discussed. It's not that we somehow "forgot" to have a scene where Phoenix does some in depth soul searching, it's that we deliberately shied away from that because we didn't think it suited Phoenix's character.

Again, I'm genuinely sorry that it's ruining the fic for you, but I'm not sure what we can do about it.

I'd say the turning point we were aiming for was back in chapter five, actually, with the simple realization that he wanted Edgeworth around--that the thought of him not being there left him feeling empty inside, along with the way he pulled Edgeworth back towards him at the very end of the chapter.

I understand what you're saying, but I think that if he's going to realize that in Chapter five, he'd first have to think about what happens in Chapter three, or else it doesn't make any sense that he's still so calm about the whole thing. Even if he tends not to notice things, I think what happened was enough to make him realize that what they'd been doing was more than just casual dinners. And seeing the way he freaked out at first, I think his reaction in Chapter four should have been more than just "I should go talk to Edgeworth". But I already covered that in my other post.

It's not that we somehow "forgot" to have a scene where Phoenix does some in depth soul searching, it's that we deliberately shied away from that because we didn't think it suited Phoenix's character.

There didn't need to be any specific scene with "soul searching", just more introspection throughout the whole thing, so we don't have to keep guessing what he's really thinking. And I doubt that "thinking" can be out of character for anyone.

I understand what you're saying, but I think that if he's going to realize that in Chapter five, he'd first have to think about what happens in Chapter three, or else it doesn't make any sense that he's still so calm about the whole thing.

But they've already come to an understanding about what happened in chapter three.

And seeing the way he freaked out at first, I think his reaction in Chapter four should have been more than just "I should go talk to Edgeworth". But I already covered that in my other post.

Can I ask you a question? Why do you think he freaked out over the kiss?

There didn't need to be any specific scene with "soul searching", just more introspection throughout the whole thing, so we don't have to keep guessing what he's really thinking. And I doubt that "thinking" can be out of character for anyone.

And I'm sure the first game would have been more meaningful if Phoenix had thought about how he wanted to save Edgeworth before 1-4. Just as I'm sure a sequence where Phoenix really faced what was making him lash out and have nightmares in the second game would have been interesting as well.

The problem? He doesn't. He doesn't consider these things. In the entire first game we don't learn about his motivations until the fourth case. He never thinks about them--he just reacts. In the second game, when faced with something he desperately doesn't want to think about, he pushes it away and yells at people when they bring it up to him.

This is a fundamental part of Phoenix's character throughout the games. Going about his day to day life while only skimming the surface of how he feels. Pushing emotions down when they're too big for him to face. Doing things that don't always make sense just because they feel right--like defending Iris even though he wasn't sure how he felt about her or who she even was.

Phoenix is not an introspective character. He usually comes to a decision quickly. When he can't because he's too upset, he'll push the emotion down and try to continue as usual until he's forced to confront it. It never takes him long to work through his issues once they've been addressed. That's Phoenix.

But they've already come to an understanding about what happened in chapter three.

Where?

Can I ask you a question? Why do you think he freaked out over the kiss?

Well let me answer with another question. Why wouldn't he?

And I'm sure the first game would have been more meaningful if Phoenix had thought about how he wanted to save Edgeworth before 1-4. Just as I'm sure a sequence where Phoenix really faced what was making him lash out and have nightmares in the second game would have been interesting as well.

The problem? He doesn't. He doesn't consider these things. In the entire first game we don't learn about his motivations until the fourth case. He never thinks about them--he just reacts. In the second game, when faced with something he desperately doesn't want to think about, he pushes it away and yells at people when they bring it up to him.

This is a fundamental part of Phoenix's character throughout the games. Going about his day to day life while only skimming the surface of how he feels. Pushing emotions down when they're too big for him to face.

I'm sorry but your comparisons don't make sense. First of all, why would Phoenix constantly be thinking about saving Edgeworth? He's known that for a while, he doesn't need to think about it anymore. He's already made up his mind.

But this is different. It's something that JUST happened, and he's confused. Why wouldn't he think about it? I agree he seems to push his emotions aside when he thinks it's too hard to handle, but I think even him wouldn't be able to do that in that situation. Not until he ponders a little and makes a decision on how he feels about it, at least.

That said, the same thing applies to his reaction in GS2 when people talk about Edgeworth. The game takes place months after Edgeworth left. He's had more than enough time to think about it and make up his mind. If the game took place right after Edgeworth left, I'm sure Phoenix would have thought about it a lot more.

It never takes him long to work through his issues once they've been addressed. That's Phoenix.

Well, there. You said it yourself. How can he address his issues if he doesn't think about them?

Where?

Chapter Four?

I'm sorry but your comparisons don't make sense. First of all, why would Phoenix constantly be thinking about saving Edgeworth? He's known that for a while, he doesn't need to think about it anymore. He's already made up his mind.

Even when he first confronts Edgeworth in court? Even after Mia and Maya explicitly ask him about it? Even after defeating him for the first time, even when Edgeworth approaches him and tells him to GTFO from his life? All of that, and absolutely nothing from Phoenix in the game.

But this is different. It's something that JUST happened, and he's confused. Why wouldn't he think about it? I agree he seems to push his emotions aside when he thinks it's too hard to handle, but I think even him wouldn't be able to do that in that situation. Not until he ponders a little and makes a decision on how he feels about it, at least.

And again, it's back to that fundamental disagreement. I think it's completely possible and natural for some people to respond to difficult things by shoving them away and refusing to deal with them. It seems strange to me that this idea is so alien.

That said, the same thing applies to his reaction in GS2 when people talk about Edgeworth. The game takes place months after Edgeworth left. He's had more than enough time to think about it and make up his mind. If the game took place right after Edgeworth left, I'm sure Phoenix would have thought about it a lot more.

I think it's kind of hard to discuss something that's never actually illustrated in the game. What we have to go on is that he blocks it out whenever it comes up--from someone else or from himself--when he doesn't want to deal with it. When "Dollie" suddenly pops back up into his life, Phoenix didn't go into a long string of introspection about it, even when actually faced with Iris. He acted, and we had to rely on physical cues to get an idea of what his response was--not his internal thought or introspection.

Well, there. You said it yourself. How can he address his issues if he doesn't think about them?

By taking action?

Chapter Four?

Yes, but I already told you it was really confusing.

Even when he first confronts Edgeworth in court? Even after Mia and Maya explicitly ask him about it? Even after defeating him for the first time, even when Edgeworth approaches him and tells him to GTFO from his life? All of that, and absolutely nothing from Phoenix in the game.

That's exactly my point. He's already made up his mind, he doesn't need to think about it anymore, no matter how much he's reminded of it.

And again, it's back to that fundamental disagreement. I think it's completely possible and natural for some people to respond to difficult things by shoving them away and refusing to deal with them. It seems strange to me that this idea is so alien.

Yes, but the way you portray it, he's not refusing to deal with them, he's just thinking about them, but not very clearly. Obviously he doesn't shove them away completely if he decides to go and talk to Edgeworth. And even though he might have decided not to think about it before getting there, while he's talking to him in the office, it makes no sense that he wouldn't have to think about what to say. And no, what he says in that scene really doesn't convey what he's thinking, and it's unfortunate, cause it could have been an interesting conversation if we knew what he was trying to say, no matter how confused he is about it himself.

When "Dollie" suddenly pops back up into his life, Phoenix didn't go into a long string of introspection about it, even when actually faced with Iris.

That's true, he doesn't, but he doesn't need to. I never said anything about doing huge strings of introspection either, just to make it CLEAR what he's thinking. In the game, it was pretty easy to figure out what he was thinking, without having to go into details. Basically, I'm not saying you need MORE introspection from Phoenix, but that what there is has to be CLEAR. Cause it's useless if you write something and we don't know what you're trying to say.

Why wouldn't he?

No, I'm asking why you think he freaked out about it. What prompted the freak out, in your opinion?

I'm sorry but your comparisons don't make sense. First of all, why would Phoenix constantly be thinking about saving Edgeworth? He's known that for a while, he doesn't need to think about it anymore. He's already made up his mind.

And, after chapter four, why would Phoenix be thinking about the kiss? He wanted to know why it happened. Edgeworth couldn't bring himself to tell him outright, but Phoenix comes to understand as he watched Edgeworth in the office. Then he extends the invitation to go out to dinner with him again--everything makes sense now, he's gotten his answer as to how Edgeworth feels. Phoenix isn't going to reject him--not at this point. (Again, the pulling him back when it looks like Edgeworth is moving away, speaking of their dinners in "past tense") Now he can begin to process things on his own end.

In short, the kiss has been resolved.

The kiss isn't a catalyst. It's a symptom of what's going on between them, not the source.

No, I'm asking why you think he freaked out about it. What prompted the freak out, in your opinion?

Well, first of all, cause he was oblivious to what was really going on between them until then.

Secondly, Edgeworth is a man.

Edgeworth couldn't bring himself to tell him outright, but Phoenix comes to understand as he watched Edgeworth in the office.

I think you don't understand what I'm saying. I KNOW that Phoenix gets his answer as to how Edgeworth feels, but what does he think about Edgeworth's feelings? It's not clear at all in the text. Even after reading the scene several times, I still didn't understand what he was thinking, or what he was trying to say. And it's your job as a writer to make it clear for the reader.

Phoenix isn't going to reject him--not at this point. (Again, the pulling him back when it looks like Edgeworth is moving away, speaking of their dinners in "past tense") Now he can begin to process things on his own end.

Well, see, that might be obvious to you, but it's not to the reader. It really wasn't clear from the way it was written if he was rejecting him or not. To me it sounded like he was telling him he just wanted to stay friends, but he was trying not to be an ass about it.

The kiss isn't a catalyst. It's a symptom of what's going on between them, not the source.

When did I say it was the source?

Secondly, Edgeworth is a man.

Just going to quickly respond to this, since I'm not Musouka/Raelle and I don't think I can answer the other questions (though I honestly felt it was clear personally).

Having seen the very long, intricate planning stages for this fic, as far as SAG is concerned (AFAIK), gender is completely and utterly irrelevant. So what if it's a man? Phoenix, if he freaks out, isn't freaking out over "Oh god I kissed a guy," it's "oh god I kissed Edgeworth."

It's not a story about a romance between two men, it's a story about a romance between two people who incidentally happen to be male.

Re: 59

(Anonymous) - 2008-02-15 22:04 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 59

musouka-manga.livejournal.com - 2008-02-16 19:24 (UTC) - Expand

Just jumping in-- have never read your fic so I can't speak specifically to it, but I think you're never going to win here. Back in the day, I played Genjo Sanzo in a roleplaying game, and I had an anon I tried to make happy and...well, let's just say it was never going to happen. We saw the characters in a fundamentally different way, which, IMO, is fine, but anon wasn't willing or perhaps able to just live with that difference.

And I think it's perfectly IC for Phoenix to snark on Maya's appetite and not consider his own emotional state-- that's what he does for most of canon!

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