[ SECRET POST #3267 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3267 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 050 secrets from Secret Submission Post #467.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - random advertisement for porcelain doves ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

08. http://i.imgur.com/sQbDtaL.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

Mixed feelings on this. If it was fic, I'd want the characters to be in character. For art I want the characters to look like they do in the media I'm fanning, not some artist's interpretation. So, while I see the concern, I guess I'm not all that bothered.

[a_potato]

This is basically how I feel. It seems to me like it's the fanart version of keeping characters IC.

On the other hand, I can sort of get the discomfort with these particular artists profiting off of their work.

[(Anonymous)]

There's a big difference between fanart and fanfic though. It's kind of impossible to directly plagiarize a literary style without lifting the entirety of a work. When you lift the entirety of an art style? Yeah, it's hella noticeable.

I've seen artists like the OP is talking about, and it's wrong in my opinion too, especially of these people are making money on it. I know there's a decent business in making prints, tote bags, basically a bunch of kitschy shit like on Tumblr and stuff, and yeah you're literally making money with a huge part of what makes that series iconic. It's pretty firmly against the law too. I know the My Little Pony fandom has had the legal department come down hard on several fanartists for exactly this because they were monetizing things, and/or they were using the ponies in a way the legal department felt was bad (I didn't follow the entire wank, not in the fandom). To be frank even using your own style, monetizing with characters that aren't yours to begin with is an extreme legal grey area with it being kinda illegal, but if you're a small fry you can get away with it most of the time.

[diet_poison]

Honest question: if you want the characters to look just like they do in canon, why not look at screencaps or re-watch scenes, instead of seeking art?

[(Anonymous)]

I don't personally like copycat fan art because it tends to bore me, but I also don't know why it matters so much to some people. I'm reading all your reasoning here and I'm just going, "So what?" They could also be making money off of fan art drawn in their own styles, it's not like people don't do that. If the artists themselves don't care about developing their own styles, it's their lives. Fanwork is just for fun anyway.

[(Anonymous)]

They would be wrong/technically illegal for selling fanart in their own style too though, which is why a lot of artists don't allow people to commission them for fanart.

[sachiko_san]

I have no problem with it. If someone likes a show, I would say it's safe to assume they like the art style too and wish to emulate it. And I would rather see fanart of characters I like in the show's style than in a style I think makes the characters look ugly.

[(Anonymous)]

It's funny because I never see this complaint about fanfic. If someone writes a fic that manages to nail the style, etc. of the canon, it's considered a laudable achievement. But then... making money off fanfiction is still generally frowned upon, so the whole "taking money away from the creators" argument doesn't strictly apply.

I've got mixed feelings. If people are allowed to make money off fanart, then they should be able to use whatever skills they have for that purpose, including the skill of mimicry. Otherwise it feels like telling people that sure, they can make fanart, but they can't be TOO good at it...

[solticisekf]

oh yes, a good old fic VS fanart debate... ^.^ Anyway, I didn't see anything about selling fanart in the secret?

[(Anonymous)]

sorry op, you probably are the only one who is offended by this.

aping an art style is harder than it looks, it takes studying the original to figure out how the proportions and shapes work and then reproducing them close enough to fool the eye. I used to do it in YGO fandom, it was hard, but once I practiced enough and got it down, I liked my own work better and so did fans. Anyone who is able to produce art in original poses and perspectives with an eye to the original is going to make bank in fandom, ngl.

because that's what people want. they're not here for unique original takes on their favorite style, they want the titillation of really believing that their pairing could happen in canon the way fanart depicts.

(and if you've got links to this artist's One Piece stuff I'd be all over it)

[(Anonymous)]

This. Being able to draw on-model is actually a pretty valuable skill in animation and to a lesser extent comics.

[(Anonymous)]

+2

[(Anonymous)]

That's nothing new and happens across all kinds of art, but the price they pay is that they'll always be in the original artist's shadow, so I don't care that much. Imitators have their place and purpose, yo.

Still takes skill, so I don't really have an issue with them being paid.

[(Anonymous)]

Like the person above, for most of these arguments, I'm just like, so what? If this is how artists want to spend their time and how fans want to spend their money, I don't think it's awful. Some of this reads like the concern trolling I sometimes see for fanfic writers that it's so artistically lazy for them to use other people's worlds and characters as a crutch. But like... what do you care about the artistic fulfillment of some person on the internet? It seems weirdly nosy.

As for copyright infringement, sorry, it's not copyright infringement. Copyright law protects works/texts as a whole, not styles or ideas (including characters). Trademark law might cover this, but it's likely to only kick in if the artist is pawning their work off as official artwork, and cutting into sales of the original. With fanart, this is highly doubtful. I'm not sure what incidents you're referring to of artists being shut down. The ones I've heard of have been companies who market their stuff to children shutting down pornographic fanart because it hurts their branding.

[raspberryrain]

That's called being a good artist. Do you realise how valuable it is to a professional artist to copy the designer's style exactly? Animation, comics, packaging art--that's what you're supposed to do. If there is trademark infringement going on, the skill of the artist in duplicating the style isn't what makes it actionable.

Good for them for getting it right.

[sachiko_san]

This.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, when OP mentioned that the artist has done this with multiple fandoms/styles, all I could think was "wow, this person has a future as a professional illustrator if they want to pursue that"

[(Anonymous)]

Eh, not the OP of this secret and my feelings on this matter are more...mixed, by virtue of being an artist myself, but every time I see this argument crop up I see this same excuse for it like "omg it's so HARD they're so TALENTED" and like...no, no it's not. It's much easier to ape a style once you've studied it than to make your own original style that isn't obviously ripped off from two or three sources smashed together. I did it at one point. Here's the thing though, it becomes really obvious, especially if you completely mimic a style, where you've basically just cut and pasted several original pictures together to make yours. But, make a style that people recognize as your work immediately? That is talent. I could sit and ape Dragon Ball or One Piece or Marvel or whatever and while that does take some talent, it's still not the same level as applying yourself and creating something unique, and I cringe every time people laud this as a job-worthy talent like people are falling all over themselves to hire artists like this. The professional job market is filled with people who can do this. You'll make better bank if you have something besides mimicry to offer a potential boss. It's all well and good if you can copy this style exactly, but the thing I notice with most of these "mimic artists" is that the moment they can't find a base photo to literally copy off of, their own lack of artistic talent comes through with the figures being stiff, the style breaking down in places, etc. It becomes obvious which ones have actual talent, and which ones are using a stolen style to compensate.


I'm not trying to shit on artists who mimic. But I think it's important that we stop treating it like the Ultimate Artistic Skill in these arguments/conversations/whatever. It's simply one skill in a vast repertoire that clients prefer you have, and you need to have a solid grasp of the basics.

[(Anonymous)]

This seems like a weird thing to get your panties in a twist over. Artists aren't required to develop their own unique style, and if they want to imitate the style of the show, why do you care?

I mean, it's fanart, which is already derivative.

I don't think they're doing anything ethically or artistically wrong -- at least style-wise. Profiting off fanwork is an entirely different question.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't see anything wrong with it. Though I do prefer fanart in the artist's own style. I love seeing characters drawn in different ways.

I'm curious about the legality of it. Does anyone have links to incidents where an artist got into legal trouble for drawing fanart? I've heard that it's happened but I've never seen any specific details.

[solticisekf]

My feeling is that it's not wrong.


I wonder why do you feel that copying a style is for 13 year olds? For one, people's skill level doesn't depend on their age. Some grown ups aka adults with srs bsn can't draw at all but do it anyway. and enjoy it. Then take Da Vince. Copying him is a difficult task. Many artists copy great painters so that they can learn and grow. In fact great artists copied their teachers' style, improving it here and there maybe. So I really wonder what is your objective here. Is it an automatic reaction copying=bad? Imo, it's the greatest complement someone can pay to another, repeating after them I mean.

UPD: didn't see the bit about selling. Not sure that copying means better sails.

[(Anonymous)]

Holy shit everybody playing internet lawyer here. Two seconds worth of googling show that is IS technically illegal and copyright infringement, not just "trademark infringement" or some shit. Copyright law states that the person who holds the rights to the work/character holds all the rights to distribute derivative works featuring that work/character.

http://graphicleftovers.com/blog/fan-art-vs-copyright-infringement-legal/
http://chrisoatley.com/fan-art/


This should clear up a bit for those who are confused. To sum it up in a TL;DR: It is illegal, all of it, but in the case of fans not making any money they generally leave it alone. However, in the case that OP states, selling art that directly mimics the original, that's something else entirely and could very well be taken to court of they felt like it. And they would win. Hands down.

So, yeah, for everybody acting all high and mighty here, you're not "in the right" with fanart and fanfic, it's mostly that creators just don't want the headache unless you're actively making money.

[mudousetsuna]

What.

This is frowned on now?

Jeezus. When I was 10, I traced my comics. Yeah, that's how I learned. You don't pass that off as something original.

But now? I can draw in the style without even LOOKING at a reference. And you know what? I worked hard to be able to do that, and it's something I'm proud of, and it's how I express my love of the original content. I don't give a shit if it isn't to someone's taste, I like it and that's how I want to draw, and that's how I'm going to draw and people who don't like it can go elsewhere for their fanart.

Now, selling fanart, that's a whole different can of worms that has been debated for a long time, and it's not even something I'm going to argue. But one is not the other. If you're against selling fanart and taking monetary value from the original artist, it won't matter what style that person is using -- people are either paying for it or not. How good it looks is entirely subjective to the audience paying for it.

Personally, if I bought fanart, I'd lean far more toward both styles I like, and ones that come close to if not outright mimic the origin, because guess what?? That's exactly what I liked about it to begin with!

[(Anonymous)]

You sound jealous.