[ SECRET POST #3291 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3291 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.
[Silver Spoon]


__________________________________________________



04.
[Jennifer Connelly, Career Opportunities]


__________________________________________________



05.
[X-Men, Madelyne Pryor]


__________________________________________________



06.
[Bloodborne]


__________________________________________________



07.
[Jessica Jones]


__________________________________________________



08.
[Kaley Cuoco]


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.
















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 011 secrets from Secret Submission Post #470.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

you mean like Luke and Anakin?

[(Anonymous)]

Not really. We saw both of them go through training, not just magically know how to use lightsabers and use Force mind tricks.

[otakugal15]

Um. No. In ANH, Luke barely had ANY training. All he did was wave a saber around pointlessly before he had the little training droid. And even then, he only did like, once, before Obi-Wan bit the dust.

Rest of teh movie was him doing what he basically did most of his life: piloting. His next bit of "training" was ghostly Obi-Wan telling to basically "feel, don't think."

After that? He only really got trained with Yoda. And as far as saber skills are concerned, he didn't get that with Yoda. and you can see it against Vader later on.

Rey? It's likely she was one of Luke's youngest students, whether she is related to him directly or not. Plus, having lived on Jakku since she was 5, she was either trained by who ever was taking care of her OR she picked up the staff and taught herself. With teh possibility of vague, hazy katas in the back of her mind helping her along.

As for her Force abilities? She basically did what Luke did. Went on very vague teaching/advice, and went from there.

She is hardly a master. Her first attempt was weak and reliant on her emotions and focus. Plus, she was using a weapon that most likely felt ten times different than her staff AND fighting a wounded Kylo, who looks like he hasn't much training either. At least she has the background with her staff to give her a basic sense on how to fight. But she was ultimately defending more than actually attacking.

So, tell me again how she ~magically~can do all of this? there's plenty ion the film that can back up how she did this. And much of it is the same thing that Luke did.

[(Anonymous)]

Kylo was trained by Luke and Snoke, his parents sent him to the Jedi Academy when he was a kid, he's 30 in the movie. He has been training for at least 20 years.

[(Anonymous)]

Rey? It's likely she was one of Luke's youngest students
Yes, because as we all know, 4 year old kids are such awesome force users and to the degree that years later when they've forgotten completely about their child hood, they're able to pull off abilites only used by knights and masters.

[(Anonymous)]

You realize Luke got his ass kicked constantly throughout ANH and needed to be rescued by Han, Leia, and Obi-Wan several times, right? Hell, our introduction to him is him getting rekt by sand people. He also explained earlier why he's a good shot and that his main skill is piloting. Otherwise, he's essentially dead weight in the first (and arguably second) Star Wars.

Rey, however, somehow knows more about the Millenium Falcon than Han, somehow managed to beat up 4 dudes, managed to do Jedi mind tricks right off the bat, managed to out mind-trick Kylo, managed to use the force to get the light saber to her (over an actual trained Jedi student), and then whooped Kylo's ass without any help. Luke didn't even manage to use the force properly until the third movie.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm willing to forgive some of her marysueish traits (like being a super pilot) because Luke and Anakin did it before and even if it's bullshit it's established bullshit, but next movie better a have a very good explanation for an untrained girl being able to successfully use a Jedi mind trick.

[ketita]

I explained it to myself as her having heard of the things that Jedi can do, and based on that trying stuff. Neither Luke nor Anakin had heard of Jedi before, and didn't know what they were supposed to be able to do.

I agree, however, that it would be nice to see the process she goes through, and I did find her sweet, and I am reserving judgement until I see how things turn out.

[(Anonymous)]

I thought that was canon. Luke still didn't believe even after he'd been to the Dago Bar for a pint of Yoda, which is why he lost his hand, but Rey had heard stories so when some unshaven old guy said to yeah-believe or a magic sword will mind rape you in some basement, she ended up believing?

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Exactly! I actually like Rey, and have no problem with her mechanical abilities. She's been making a living selling used parts that she obviously knew where to find, how to remove from said machine, what they were worth, etc. But the "I'm a great Force user with no training whatsoever and really I didn't even believe Jedis existed" is kind of BS. I hope for a much better explanation in the next movie.

[(Anonymous)]

Not really, she's much worse than them.

It doesn't just end with Rey being a good flyer with a ship that actually needs a co pilot and pulling crazy maneuvers out her ass. She proceeds to also know just as much as Han Solo himself about the Falcon (even despite claiming she doesn't know what it is) and that makes Han Solo fall in love with her immediately trying to make her second in command (Totally out of character for Han. His ship is his pride. Remember when C3PO tried to give Han tips on how to fix the Falcon?)

In comparison, Luke was established as a good pilot, yet STILL got in Han's way when they escaped Tatooine, because he doesn't know how the fuck the Falcon works, proving that they actually needed Han. Now if Luke was Mary Sue, they would've ditched Han and Luke would just taken the Falcon and proven how awesome of a flyer he is by escaping Tatooine himself. But he didn't because their escape scene proved that it's impossible for someone who doesn't know the Falcon to fly it.

Han immediately wants to father her and offers her a job, Chewbacca loves her despite never even having interacted with her and Chewbacca hates people. Leia loves her because. Maz loves her because. Finn loves her because she's so beautiful.

Then don't even get me started on her immediately learning how to use guns and killing a bunch of Storm Troopers while still needing to learn how aiming actually works. her using some Jedi Master level mind tricks without anybody teaching her and her not even believing in it hours before

[(Anonymous)]

Huh. It's like you read some weird MRA rant about the movie and watched the trailer, without actually watching a second of it yourself. Bravo. I also hate things I've only heard about third hand.

[otakugal15]

Pretty much this.

[(Anonymous)]

How about you try to refute the arguments instead of copping out with a cheap accusation?

[(Anonymous)]

You're out of your gourd.

[analise]

A: while it didn't get explicitly said in the movies, from both the Before the Awakening book and the TFA novelization (which I've only just started reading but still) it's shown there that she has actually spent quite a bit of her 'down time' when she's not scavenging doing flight simulations on a console she patched together. She spent a great deal of time before the movie starts patching up a ship she found in the desert so she could bring it in working to Unkar for mucho payment. She basically spends all of her 'work time' in the guts of any ship that's ever crashed on the planet. She knows how they work in general, even if she hasn't run the Falcon specifically anymore. Even if you haven't read the novelization/whatever, the fact still stands that she spends all day inside of ships. She has to know how they work and how they're put together to get the most valuable parts to bring back to Unkar. (and bringing up C-3PO is a red herring. Han could've hated the Falcon and he still would've told the droid to shut up)

Also, why wouldn't Han maybe feel some kind of fatherly feelings toward her? She probably reminds him of Luke with the kid-on-a-desert-planet thing, she obviously knows ships, she handled herself really well with the rathtars, etc. And remember, this Han is thirty years older than the one of the OT. He's seen shit. He's essentially lost his son to the forces of darkness and his marriage/relationship/whatever with Leia is continually on the rocks. His only friend is a seven-foot-tall walking carpet because his only other friend is off finding himself on some remote planet and nobody's seen him for years. Why wouldn't he look at Rey and think maybe here was someone he could actually pass something of himself on to?

I don't think we ever saw that Chewbacca "hates people". Like...seriously. He gets along with most everyone (on the good guy side) that we see. Pretty sure every other time we see him actually threaten someone it's because his or Han's life is in danger (and on the Death Star when Luke wanted to cuff him which could be perceived as the same, lbr).

Maz doesn't love her from what I see. Maz is intrigued by her. It's entirely possible that, since she's the one who was holding the lightsaber at the time, that she actually knows more about Rey than we realize. Also you know, she's like a thousand years old so who even knows what she already knows about Jedi/the Force/Skywalkers/whatever.

Finn loves her because she sees him as a person, not a stormtrooper. He confesses to her, and she doesn't tell him he's evil which he was totally expecting. She helped him out even when she had no real reason to and you know, she saved his life.

And she didn't immediately learn to use guns. She understands the basics of how to use a blaster and considering how she's already proficient with her staff it's quite likely she's got good hand-eye coordination. Her first shot failed, then she figured out quickly how to aim better.

As far as not believing goes, it may have actually helped her in a way. She needed to get the stormtrooper to let her go. She already knows you can use the Force to affect someone's mind because she just had an object lesson in it from Kylo Ren. She's heard stories of Jedi, so even if they're myths...again, she's heard stories of what they can do. She's had it very explicitly shown to her that whether she likes it or not...the Force is with her. She has ample reason to give it a try (or to do it as Yoda might tell us, not try) and she has no one there telling her she can't because she doesn't have the experience.

Like...I am a big fan of Anakin, personally. But he was a nine-year-old kid subconsciously using his Force-powers so he could compete in a deadly sport that no other human could. He had the ~most~Force~potential~evar~ and was immediately taken on by Qui-Gon Jinn (who wanted to be fatherly to him) to become his new apprentice, even though Qui-Gon hadn't officially graduated his current apprentice. Said current apprentice, while having said Anakin was dangerous and while not showing earlier any particular interest in liking the kid, takes him on anyway as his Master at the end of the movie after standing up to the leading member of the Jedi council to do so. Anakin is ~the~best~starpilot~in~the~galaxy~. He manages to successfully "land" a flaming, breaking apart, chunk of a starship that they really should have all died in on the way down. He shows so much potential as a little boy that the most powerful man in the entire galaxy (the Chancellor) takes personal interest in his career and acts (as a father figure, again!) as a confidante to him for many years. Sure, he's grooming him to become his evil Sith apprentice one day but he wouldn't do it if Anakin weren't ~the~most~powerful~Jedi~ever~. The only woman with any real role in the entire prequel trilogy falls in love with him (despite his terrible lines). He manages to successfully fly a starship he's never even seen before (and up until that point, he'd never even been on any starship...at least Luke had been bullseyeing womp rats and Rey had been digging around in their guts) and uses it to take out an attacking army's control ship. Sure, it was "by accident" but he still didn't die. And that's all stuff in the movies. It doesn't take into account the things he got up to in the various other EU-type things or the Clone Wars series. Not to mention the bit where he's the ~Chosen~One~.

He's totally a Mary Sue by the standard you've given for Rey and yet it's Rey that bothers you....

[otakugal15]

Oh my god I love you.

[(Anonymous)]

The movie explains why Rey knows so much about the Millennium Falcon, and the basics of her fighting skills. Take off the angry fanboy-goggles because women having relevant parts is The Worst!, and go watch the movie again.

[(Anonymous)]

"Rey isn't a Mary Sue!"

-malnourished scavenger fights off two men twice her size
-fumbles at first, then suddenly outmaneuvers 2 TIE fighters while flying through a scrapyard and though the inside of a ship
-master mechanic that can quickly identify problems with ships she's never flown on
-full on force vision from touching a lightsaber, hears Obiwan speaking
-never used a gun before, fumbles at first, then suddenly starts dropping storm troopers left and right
-Trained Sith Apprentice mind read barely works on her, then reads his mind in return
-Jedi mind trick on guard out of nowhere
-Trained force user Kylo Ren has trouble pulling lightsaber towards him, but it rockets towards Rey from 40 meters
-100 pound woman bests trained swordsman

[otakugal15]

-Been living there for most of her life and either has fuzzy memories of her early training and/or she taught herself.
-She knows those star destroyers. She scavenges in them, has been for years. and it's not impossible that she has found smaller ships that could still be in good enough shape and taught herself to fly.
-She has probably snuck aboard that ship/found plenty of stuff over the years and studied them. There are ships littered on that planet. Not hard to do.
-Gee, I hear Anakin had something similar, just in the form of a dream. The Force will manifest itself however the hell it wants.
-Force sensitive. They tend to have higher reflexes than most. This is canon.
-Force Sensitive. Also, she still probably had some kind of training if not had someone tamper with her head. This is also not unheard of. The original EU had plenty of things of that nature and it's obvious JJ was pulling things from it.
-She failed twice. Jedi are myth, but she still knew of them. Also, Kylo was trying to do the same, no matter how differently he was doing it. Enforcing his will on her. It's the same basic principal.
-Sheer force of will. Not to mention when seeing your friend nearly die, emotion and focus tends to come in here. Look at Obi-Wan when Qui-Gon died. High intense situations make things seem easy.
-He was injured and not fighting her as seriously as he wanted. He wanted her to come with him, so he underestimated her. And she took advantage of that. Most people can do that, whether they are skilled or not. It all depends on circumstance. And she had it.

Yawn. Next?

[(Anonymous)]

Have some more:

First wookie Rey meets. Can speak Wookie.
First BB Droid Rey meets. Can speak BB.
First Lightsaber Rey grips. Can duel practiced ex-jedi.
First time piloting MF. Better pilot than Han Solo.

[(Anonymous)]

Anakin
-Blew up a droid ship but only because his ship was in autopilot
-Failed many times to win pod races but succeeded when Subulba and the rest got killed off
-Got beat by dooku and his hand cut off
-got captured multiple times
-Couldn't even kill all the younglings

Luke
-Needed Obi wan to help him destroy the death star
-Was actually a trained pilot and tried to join the academy
-Got his hand cut off
-Nearly got electrocuted to death
-Had to be saved by Vader
-Got captured by fucking ewoks

Mary Rey
-Learned force powers instantly(can mind dominate despite never seeing it done or even hearing of it)
-Learned how to wield a sword instantly despite only using a staff
-knows how to pilot despite never being off planet
-Knows about hyper drive system/repair/operation despite never being in hyperdrive
-trained marksman despite never firing a single shot
-recovered to beat kylos ass despite being thrown into a tree
-resisted mind reading from kylo and even read his mind back

[(Anonymous)]

This is bait, but I'll respond anyway.

First, Anakin in the first movie was 100% a Mary Sue. He's there for the express purpose of giving children someone to relate to as that was Lucas' target audience for some reason. The audience hated him though.

Anakin past the first film was not a Mary Sue. He was very skilled, yes, but at that point he'd had considerable training. Also he was really unsettling to watch and felt all around creepy. He was impulsive and whiny which are two big character flaws.

Luke sucked at everything he did and constantly had to be saved by other people. Even his final confrontation with the Emperor was a loss till Vader stepped in. His Death Star run was aided by his previously stated ability to pilot, and a decent culmination to learning the basics of the force: Get small ball into small hole. Luke is disliked by most people he meets and has character flaws.

Rey is like Anakin in the first movie. She does things effortlessly on the first try or learns at a pace far beyond anything believable. She's loved and trusted by everyone she meets, and can do things better than everyone else. The only thing that makes her worse than Anakin in Episode I is that the movie focuses on her a lot more.

Mary Sue is not a catch all for the main character. It's a moniker for character who are literally perfect and have no flaws and frequently no personality. They're pants for the viewer to put on and imagine themselves in the universe.

tl;dr Episode I Anakin and Rey are Mary Sues, Luke and Episode II & III are not.

[otakugal15]

Oh yes Luke is.

Kid, from a desert planet who has never glown an X-Wing in his life suddenly can? And he's given the leader role to fly into the canyon and destroy the Death Star? Tild to basically believe in himself?

Yeah. And he just so happens to make it? Yeah, no. That's very Mary Sue.

[(Anonymous)]

Anakin is one thing, but I'm so tired of people writing off Luke as a Sue. The guy was whiny and hopeless all throughout ANH and ESB, but had decent, believable character development later on. There are endless examples of male Mary Sues out there, but he is not one of them.