[ SECRET POST #3329 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3329 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 055 secrets from Secret Submission Post #476.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

How do you reconcile your human desire to sexualize with your moral imperative to not sexualize? Asking for a friend who is a lesbian and a bit of an activist, but who found the cosplay at her first con this weekend very eye-opening and utterly shameful... The friend is me. I'm the gross fucking creeper just like all the creepy men I condemn. Ugh. Fuck. I don't want to be like that, but my eyes were out on fucking stalks these last two days.

[philstar22]

But I don't think sexual attraction is wrong. It isn't about not sexualizing people, it is about not objectifying them or getting possessive about it. It is okay to look, but don't stare for a long while, especially if they are clearly uncomfortable. Don't act like you have a right to them. And don't take photos of them for masturbatory purposes. But just being a sexual being that finds some other people sexually attractive is not bad.

[(Anonymous)]

i don't think my usual advice will work here, but what i tend to say is that to avoid objectifying someone you need to remember one thing: they are not their body. inside that body they are a person that will probably find your attention abhorrent. remember that and act accordingly and you will avoid creepiness and objectifying behaviour.

[(Anonymous)]

Why won't that advice work here?

[flipthefrog.livejournal.com]

>they are a person that will probably find your attention abhorrent

What the fuck? This is, like, the fucking opposite of true. I don't give two shits one way or the other if, when I go out in public, every person on the street is imagining me naked and horny; I care if someone acts on that desire. Especially at a con, where most people dress up because they're proud of their costume and are aware that people are going to be looking at them.

Obviously this doesn't apply if you're catcalling or touching yourself inappropriately at the girl or whatever (those are actions!) But seriously, stop beating yourself up over thoughtcrime. Being attracted to someone on a physical level is a thing nobody can control.

[(Anonymous)]

Lol, somehow I highly doubt a cosplayer is going to go "Oh noez, she finds me dressed up as this sexy sexy character visually arousing, how disgusting of her, I feel so violated!"

Like I understand what you're saying, and it definitely applies to certain things like the fetishization of trans people specifically for their genitalia/body matchup (no "chicks with dicks" or "cunt boys" fetishization welcome there), and it applies to situations where people are not actively trying to be sexy and garner a reaction, but OP was at a con where people are literally competing to see who can do the most sexy, on-model cosplay. Like I highly doubt Melona here (http://i.gzn.jp/img/2010/03/21/moehaku2010_costume_play/DSC_1124.JPG) or Sexy Boba Fett (http://i.imgur.com/9yHZJKE.jpg) (I legit typoe'd this as Booba Fett) is going to be like "I REJECT YOU BEING ATTRACTED TO ME, HOW DISGUSTING!"

[herpymcderp]

Uhhhhh.... what moral imperative not to sexualize? That sounds like some fucked up shit if you think being moral means not seeing other people as sex objects. We are all basically wired to have sexual desires and incorporate other people into them*. Saying you can't see another person as sexy seems like some self flagellation.

Sexualize away, just don't behave in a way that makes people uncomfortable, and don't fall into the trap of thinking that just because you find a person sexy that they cease to have any other value or personhood. If you're capable of doing that I don't really see the problem.



*the extent to which this is a personal concern is as individual as a fingerprint, of course- not to preclude asexuals

[(Anonymous)]

seeing other people as sex objects is inherently immoral. I know you're a man and will have a problem hearing this, but you are describing objectification. This is a bad thing.

[diet_poison]

That sounds like some fucked up shit if you think being moral means not seeing other people as sex objects

But that's exactly what it means when you take away a person's personhood while finding them attractive. Objectification = bad. Finding someone sexy = not bad

[grausam]

many cosplayers dress up in sexy cosplay to feel sexy. tell yourself that you're playing into their hands.

don't leer, don't touch (without consent) and don't stare at cosplayers that are too young and you should be just fine.

[(Anonymous)]

I reconcile it by acknowledging that I'm a sexual person and I'm going to sexualize people and it's natural. What goes on inside my head that is not obvious to the outside world belongs to me, and I will objectify all the day long if I want to. The important thing is my behavior. I do not treat people like sexual objects. I do not ogle with my jaw open and drool running down my chin, I don't give them the obvious once-over look, I don't hover or creep, and I certainly don't say anything creepy and weird.

This is not hard for me because they are two separate things. One is an active fantasy life, the other is real life. I don't find myself accidentally riding a unicorn to work at my day job as a billionaire rock star, because that's not real. Ditto fantasies and finding other people attractive.

[raspberryrain]

I don't know what kind of cosplay you're feeling guilty about ogling, but if someone is intentionally putting something sexual out there, we expect that response.

[eyeshine72]

You are normal and not shameful or morally depraved. Sexualizing other human beings you are attracted to is normal. It's your behavior that is important. Don't leer or make them uncomfortable. The important thing to remember is that they have feelings too.

[iceyred]

Honestly, it sounds like you're afraid of your sexuality and are acting out against it by telling yourself that people finding hot people hot is wrong. You might want to talk to somebody about that.

I might be wrong, but finding hot, scantily clad people to be sexy is not wrong.

[(Anonymous)]

Look but don't touch.

And when you look, try not to ogle.

And don't feel guilty for thinking, "That's HOT." Because hell, it probably is.

You seem pretty self-aware though, so chances are you won't cross a line. Just be mindful in your interactions (if you interact) and don't ask or say anything overtly sexual (unless you know them well enough that you know they wouldn't be offended by it).

[(Anonymous)]

Given that women's bodies were literally chattel not 50 years ago in the western world, I understand your discomfort, but you should remember you are also a victim of this same thing. You've been conditioned by society to find these things attractive. You've been conditioned by society to separate womens bodies from women as entities in this way and while it's good that you recognise the destructive root of it, and it's good that you want to be better, you shouldn't beat yourself up for falling victim to this cultural trap.

[(Anonymous)]

You're a woman. You're fiiine. the bar for creept is much higher for you than for guys. Please don't take all the creep shaming that we send at guys to heart. as long as you're not touching a woman without consent you'll be fine. Most of the creepy shaming comes from a different place than what you're worrying about.

lol this thread

[intrigueing]

Every now and then I think "hey I should check the GC again" and every time I do I remember all over again why there is no earthly reason for me to ever set foot in this shithole.

[diet_poison]

Looking at someone who has dressed in a sexual way isn't wrong. You shouldn't condemn men who do it either if all they're doing is looking. Leering and ogling, no...but you can't blame anyone for looking.

I guess it depends on what it means by saying your "eyes were out on stalks"

[(Anonymous)]

You're hilarious.

This lesbian encourages everyone - man, woman, gay, straight, whatever to sexualize, sexualize away! Sex is great! It's great to be attracted to people! Whoo sex!

[(Anonymous)]

Sooo, you're not alone. I worked at a famous bra store in the fitting rooms. I wasn't out at work, 'cause I didn't want some homophobe to fire me for some stupid reason. There were two times in the two years I worked there that I had to go hide behind the curtain for a second and just think, "hot DAMN is she attractive." Then get on with my life.

So yes, it feels like being a leery lesbian, but no, it's not being a creep. I wasn't making advances toward these women, I wasn't making comments to my coworkers or even my friends later except to tell the story about hiding behind the curtain.

Sexual feelings have been demonized in so many ways from so many perspectives that's hard to reconcile anything regarding sex. But it's perfectly natural to find someone attractive based on the social expectations and personal preference of appearance.

The creeper part is if you start making comments, can't peel your eyes off them, start talking about them with someone you're with (whether or not they can hear you), or make some kind of advance. At a con, that's not what cosplay is for. Cosplay is for the fun of turning into someone else, so admire them for that and keep your other -ahem- admirations to yourself, and you're golden.

You can still be an activist. It doesn't mean you have to be perfect all the time, 'cause that's too much pressure for anyone. You can be sexual, just don't force your admiration on anyone.

[mrs_don_draper]

Attraction/Sexualization is one thing. It's the entitlement, stalking, annoying people, etc. that is the issue.

[(Anonymous)]

Dude, chill. Sexual feelings are fine, sexualizing others is fine. Like others pointed out it ultimately comes down to behavior.

Are you respecting the boundaries of the person you're sexualizing? Do you recognize that they are not obligated to return your interest? Do you realize that there are certain contexts for expressing sexual desire and certain contexts where it's not? Then you're fine.

[caerbannog]

I don't have a moral imperative to not sexualise...I have the common sense to be discrete and not creep people out. Up to and including the ability to look away (most times).

[(Anonymous)]

It's totally not if you find a cosplayer sexy or not, it's how you act about it! I'm a lesbian too and if I saw a lady cosplayer who I thought was hot I wouldn't feel bad about it. But if I went up to that cosplayer and started harassing them, or acted like they're dressed up like that to turn me on, then yeah, I'd be a shitty person and I should feel bad.

I also think that you need to change your perspective on what makes men "creepy". Acting entitled to women would fit in that category. Being sexually attracted to women would not.