[ SECRET POST #3993 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3993 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 57 secrets from Secret Submission Post #572.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

03. https://i.imgur.com/HKOOYJT.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

I keep seeing posts declaring Rosa Diaz (of Brooklyn 99) is gay, and I'm just... she specifically said she was bi. She entirely literally said "I'm bi." What does it fucking take???

So, yeah, I'd also be inclined to suspect bi erasure.

[(Anonymous)]

It seems like more and more, when people use the word "gay" to refer to women, they mean something closer to "wlw" rather than "explicitly and exclusively lesbian". so that specific thing seems like it's at least in part a usage / semantics thing, rather than being bi erasure. that's how it seems to me, that's the sense that I get from seeing people talk about it.

I have no comment on OP's secret.

[ibbity]

I think in some cases you're probably right, but as a bi woman myself I've noticed a lot of subtle attempts to exclude bi women from...idk, "full" queerness? "counting" as queer? in wlw spaces that should theoretically be inclusive of us but do kind of have a "lesbians only" vibe to them. I think there's more hostility, overt or covert, and resentment towards the bi contingent among lesbians than there is among gay men. At least such has been my experience and I don't think I'm unique enough to be the only bi woman who's ever felt this way. There's gatekeeping there sometimes---witness the persistence of "gold star lesbians" as a concept. I can't say anything about the specific example in the secret but in general I do think there tends to be a lot of bi erasure among 100% gay women.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I think this is totally a fair point, and I want to be clear that I'm definitely not trying to dismiss, or really even comment on, the broader social dynamics. I want to be very clear that I'm only talking about the specific way that "gay" is used as a descriptor for women and not making any more general arguments whatsoever.

[(Anonymous)]

Pretty much this. I've seen bi people who refer to themselves as gay and say gay is an umbrella term for same gender attracted people, and bi people who insist that being referred to as gay is bi erasure, and gay people who say it's fine to use gay as an umbrella term, and gay people who say that that's taking away their word. Semantics problems are pretty much a given, so I prefer to assume people are speaking in good faith and not trying to erase anyone or do any other nefarious things.

[(Anonymous)]

NA

It happens to men too. A lot of people are refusing to let "gay" be a specific term now. Look at the creator's statements on Ben Daniels' character in The Exorcist: he's bi and it's supposed to be very important that he's bisexual, specifically, but at the same time there's a hell of a lot of use of "gay" to describe him.

It used to be clear that when a bisexual character was described as gay that it was bi erasure. Now it's a coin toss whether it's someone assuming that because they're not straight that they must be gay, and whether it's someone using the word "gay" because it's an ~umbrella term~ and ~basically reclaiming a slur from those nasty monosexual homos who talk about "gay rights" and "gay marriage" when they mean etc etc~ (never mind that almost everyone still using those terms instead of "marriage equality" and "LGBTI rights" is straight...).

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not sure why you're using ~scare tildes~ here

It seems like a fairly straightforward change in usage of the kind that languages constantly go through

[froodle]

I didn't know this so hopefully it is just that it's not common knowledge rather than bi-erasure. Hopefully.

[(Anonymous)]

Same, and I'm a fan of her books.

[(Anonymous)]

Her books made me so, so very happy to read when I was a teenager.

[(Anonymous)]

This happens so often that it's hard not to think it's just plain old bi erasure, honestly.

[(Anonymous)]

I have felt for a long time that in general "bi" is more difficult for a lot of people to understand than "gay".

[(Anonymous)]

Which is kind of weird to me, since, even though I'm obviously biased, bisexuality seems to make a lot more sense to me than single-gender sexualities? Like, I sincerely don't understand how it works. Do most people have to hold off on being attracted to someone until they ask them their gender identity?

Is the whole, "I thought you were a hot chick but you're actually a drag queen, so I immediately revoke my attraction to you," joke like, an actual thing for some people? I'm not trying to come across as offensive here, if anyone takes it that way, it's just that this is a genuinely wild concept to me, idk.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT but I would consider it more like... an extremely strong pattern, rather than a logical necessity?

Like... intellectually, I know that anything is possible and sexuality is weird and complex. At the same time, the reality is that I am attracted to one gender overwhelmingly more often and overwhelmingly more strongly - by at least an order of magnitude - to the point where it just doesn't make sense to compare them.

I don't think that bisexuality is difficult to understand though. I just thought your question was interesting.

[(Anonymous)]

Yup. Sexual compatibility is a funny thing. Some people don't like the cock. Others, not a fan of the vag. So, yeah... the "Wow, you're really hot except the parts you want to have sex with turn me on about as much as a flounder" thing can be a real deal-breaker.

[(Anonymous)]

Uh, no, there is no thought process that occurs in my brain that goes "Hang on, I need to determine how this person gender identifies so that I can know whether I'm attracted to them or not." I'm just attracted to them or I'm not. It just so happens that if I'm attracted to them sexually, there's a 99.9% chance they're the opposite gender.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Lots of people have dealbreakers that are not apparent at first sight, or even apparent via the kind of relationship you probably won't have until after a few dates.

[(Anonymous)]

Attraction is not something given or revoked, like a gift, it is something people just feel involuntarily and it can wax and wane or even appear and disappear abruptly. You see to think loss of attraction is something people do to be mean, and that's just not how it works.

Attraction is based on the apparent aspects of a person one has been able to observe up until that point, whether that's a person's physical appearance (possibly with clothes on) or their personality or whatever. Feeling attraction at some point is not a requirement to continue to feel it, should something happen that reveals qualities about the person that one does not find attractive - it could be something about the person's body, or it could be that they turn out to be an asshole.

It's the same regardless of orientation, because even if you are attracted to all bodies, there's no way you are attracted to all personalities. Even demisexuality isn't immune, because even if you feel you know someone well enough to be attracted to them, they could be putting on a facade, and if the mask falls, there goes the attraction.

[ibbity]

From all the "you all are just greedy/indecisive/in a phase and WILL make up your mind one way or the other" attitudes I've encountered, from cishet AND queer* people, I think that a very real part of it is that people like being able to fit others into neat little categories and they find it difficult to do with bi folks because there aren't really any stereotypes or "boxes" attached to us (except being "greedy" ie promiscuous, and our supposed inability to be faithful because we "can't be satisfied" with just one type of sex.) So people react with suspicion and hostility because they can't relegate us to a familiar category and feel that they know what to expect of us as a category, like they feel they can with Teh Straights or gay men/lesbians. A LOT of people kind of hate having to deal with people as individuals rather than as pa rt of a demographic/specific culture.

*queer people ime can actually be way worse about it than straight folks. Straight folks often just get confused. Monosexual queer people sometimes seem to feel attacked by the fact that someone isn't monosexual.

[(Anonymous)]

Took longer than I expected for someone in this thread to blame heterosexism on "monosexual queer people."

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Please don't use the term "monosexual" for gay people. It's homophobic and ignorant to create a commonality between straight and gay people that's based entirely on the thing that homophobic straight people hate in the first place. There is no shared experience between gay people and straight people based on only being attracted to one gender, because the experience of being attracted only to one's own gender is different in every way from that of being attracted only to the "opposite" gender.

If you would consider it inappropriate to lump bisexual people in with straight people under a term such as "oppososexual" or whatever, meaning "attracted to the opposite gender", because the experience thereof is completely different between bisexual people and straight people... then consider that you are doing the same thing to gay people when you use "monosexual". It's incorrect and it's homophobic.

[(Anonymous)]

If we're talking Tumblr culture, it's definitely bi erasure. I can't count how many times I've seen people call a character 'gay' or 'lesbian' even though in past canon they'd been in a relationship with the opposite sex.

[(Anonymous)]

Speaking of, it never fails to annoys me whenever I see people loathe the idea of a bi character ever dating an opposite sex person again, after they've had a relationship with a same-sex person. Do you not get what bisexual means, guys, or???

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Well, in the words have multiple meanings depending on context, I generally agree that a "gay person" should only apply to men who are exclusively attracted to or have sex with men. But clarifying that phrases like "gay culture," "gay rights," and "gay community" should arguably be rephrased as "LGBTQ people and maybe allies depending on context and situation" is likely not a fight worth having every time it comes up.

(I probably should clarify that "allies" IMNSHO requires doing more for LGBTQ people than just consuming media and voting every few years.)