[ SECRET POST #4417 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4417 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 10 secrets from Secret Submission Post #632.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Secrets you're too lazy to make

[(Anonymous)]

I don't like Vic Mignogna and never have, but as there's no undeniable evidence* that he's a sex pest and none of his multiple supposed victims are pressing charges, I don't think mob justice is right in this instance.

*the girl from photo of the awkward hug posted this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyyH2L9X4AA9qiA.jpg

Re: Secrets you're too lazy to make

[(Anonymous)]

I haven't followed this particular controversy (as I'm not in any relevant fandom), but I think the ideas of "undeniable evidence" and "mob justice" are both really bad ways to frame this kind of a thing.

Because, first, is "undeniable evidence" actually the kind of standard that we should be demanding here? I don't think that it is - we're not a court of law, we're human beings. Coming to conclusions based on imperfect evidence is a fundamental part of being human. And "undeniable evidence" is not really a standard that we demand in most parts of life. So it seems to me that we can draw reasonable conclusions about things even if we're not 100% certain and the evidence isn't undeniable. That's kind of what we do all the time.

Second, is "mob justice" actually what's going on here? I mean, what actual consequences are there and what is being done to this person? If someone is getting yelled at, or loses some jobs and has to stay out of the public eye, is it fair to call that "mob justice"? And is it actually an unfair consequence?

And, like, there's no easy answers to those questions, but demanding 'undeniable evidence' and talking about 'mob justice' is drawing conclusions in advance.

Re: Secrets you're too lazy to make

[(Anonymous)]

is "undeniable evidence" actually the kind of standard that we should be demanding here?

Yes, unless you want the internet mob justice to kill MORE people.

Re: Secrets you're too lazy to make

[(Anonymous)]

Can you expand on what you mean with this whole Internet killing people thing?

Re: Secrets you're too lazy to make

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, unless you want the internet mob justice to kill MORE people.

Sorry, but nani the fuck?

Re: Secrets you're too lazy to make

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not a fan and he's always struck me as a homophobe. I'm gay, so that's a dealbreaker for me.

But it seems like a case of bad boundaries and misunderstanding about what's okay to do to a stranger. I believe the biggest issue brought forth is him kissing girls' cheeks as an intended non-sexual (probably) gesture of endearment without asking consent. To be clear, there's a huge issue with Vic, a 50-someting year old man, being a bit too friendly with teenage girls. It isn't okay, but it's not crazy to think he had no idea it was inappropriate, since kissing cheeks - along with hugs and such - are so variable to culture and upbringing.

I don't mind him earning his reputation as a skeev and a perv who thinks he's some kind of rockstar celebrity among otaku crowds. But it doesn't seem like there's any evidence he's some kind of sex offender or committed any crime, nor anything that could be reasonably considered assault against anyone. So the mob justice is a little uncomfortable to me, too.

Re: Secrets you're too lazy to make

[(Anonymous)]

What mob justice are people actually doing?

Re: Secrets you're too lazy to make

[(Anonymous)]

Well, he's getting fired from roles and such now.

Re: Secrets you're too lazy to make

[(Anonymous)]

he's always been pretty open about the homophobia

cos he's a ✧・ﾟ:*Christian*:・ﾟ✧

[not that i'm saying all christians are like that, just that's his excuse]

Re: Secrets you're too lazy to make

[(Anonymous)]

What I hated most was how he pulled a "Let me CLEAR IT UP, if you are gay, I LOVE YOU AND GOD LOVES YOU TOO!" which all his fans used to absolve him.

I really hate that condescending crap. Unless Vic supports gay marriage and LGBT equality and has no problem voicing gay roles (history suggests he does) then he can fuck off with his Christian "love the sinner" bullshit.

Re: Secrets you're too lazy to make

[(Anonymous)]

He's had bad boundaries for ten plus years and been an asshole to con staffers and fellow VAs.

He's given his phone number to below 18 girls.

This man is nearly 60.

The Risembool Rangers club? Requires personal information like real name, address and phone number.

I'm sorry but that's fucking red flags all over.

Re: Secrets you're too lazy to make

[(Anonymous)]

I agree, but being an asshole and skeev doesn't make you a sex offender.

Re: Secrets you're too lazy to make

[(Anonymous)]

hate to break it to you anon but i joined a whole bunch of fan clubs for things as a kid in the 80s and 90s and they all required your real name and address because they would send you shit like t-shirts and "signed" posters. that's par for the course with fan clubs.

Re: Secrets you're too lazy to make

[(Anonymous)]

This. I think he's full of himself and I absolutely believe the stories that he was a shitty person to con staff, and I do think he probably doesn't have a good grasp of boundaries. BUT having been a teenager at cons myself, I remember being sixteen and being over the moon when my favorite voice actor gave me a hug at one con so it's not hard to see how someone could think that fans would want things like hugs and cheek kisses because a lot of them DO. If you get a lot of people reacting positively to that then it's easy to see how someone would think "okay, I should do these things because they make people happy" without stopping to realize that actually, no, not everyone wants that.

Re: Secrets you're too lazy to make

[thewakokid]

Man alive, I do NOT have a horse in this race - I watch Subs like a real man of culture

And other than the general "Innocent until proven guilty" ideal I tend to stick to, I couldn't give half a fart about this.

But I do have to say, watching the people reacting to your comment is very... reassuring to me. It's not that I wish this on you or anything, but it is good to know that so many people do this whole "I WILL TAKE THE WORST INTERPRETATION OF WHAT YOU SAID AND USE THAT AGAINST YOU" bad faith bullshit to others.

Without seeing the odd thread like this a guy could come to take that kind of thing personally.

Re: Secrets you're too lazy to make

[(Anonymous)]

But I do have to say, watching the people reacting to your comment is very... reassuring to me. It's not that I wish this on you or anything, but it is good to know that so many people do this whole "I WILL TAKE THE WORST INTERPRETATION OF WHAT YOU SAID AND USE THAT AGAINST YOU" bad faith bullshit to others.

But all of the arguing is in one subthread that's specifically about whether or not it's OK for him to be fired.

Re: Secrets you're too lazy to make

[(Anonymous)]

How about you not make the skeeving on teenaged girls thing about you? Are you that much of a fucking shitstain you have to? I'm sorry you want to do "innocent until proven guilty" but like. When multiple con staffers and other professionals who could lose their jobs if they're not telling the truth on this have been saying this shit about him taking teens back to his room for over ten years, then honey, where there's smoke there's fire.

Fuck off and suck a cactus, Wako, you stopped being cute a long time ago and I'm fucking sick of your selfish, grimy, "weh da femineests are after meeeee" attitude.

Re: Secrets you're too lazy to make

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sorry that "pressing charges" is where you draw the line. Most people won't want to because Vic has a ton of money and could effectively bury them.

He's a 50+ year old man, nearly 60. He should know better than to give his phone number to teenaged girls. This isn't mob justice. He's been doing this for over ten years, he's an asshole to other VAs and con staffers, and there's at least one photo I've seen where he obviously had his hand up a teen girl's shirt.

Re: Secrets you're too lazy to make

[(Anonymous)]

Link the photo?

Re: Secrets you're too lazy to make

[(Anonymous)]

Lemme find it, and I will. Gimme an hour.

DA

[(Anonymous)]

Not the picture but

https://twitter.com/shibonsen/status/1087352921015111680

I remember seeing this on the forums in question. Guy took a teenaged girl to his room. That's pretty darn gross. And it wasn't a one-time thing where he was doing really weird stuff.

https://twitter.com/EXTERMINAT1ON/status/1086025969427714049

Another account of having underage girls in his hotel room overnight.

https://twitter.com/ellkehm/status/1091315986534490112

He called a 14-year-old girl for her birthday. Why does he need a child's phone number?

https://twitter.com/thehomedood/status/1091463730003623936

More con staff talking about him flirting with underage girls

https://twitter.com/Syri_blazefury/status/1090821217895022592

Even more con staff:

https://twitter.com/JoeKenner/status/1091418327539466240

This entire first-hand account

https://twitter.com/lightheartcos/status/1091587645212368897

Even more con staff:

https://twitter.com/lady_goggles/status/1092897706647920648

I'm looking for the photo in question they mentioned but haven't found it yet. But a lot of first-hand experiences are... Eventually, they add up, you know?

You all need to educate yourselves

[(Anonymous)]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2015/05/14/internet-mob-justice-isnt-justice-at-all/#5814318616bf

https://nypost.com/2018/08/05/weve-got-to-stop-letting-outrage-mobs-get-people-fired/

Re: You all need to educate yourselves

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think that it's always right by any means but I don't think that the basic concept of "yelling at people on the Internet for being shitty and/or evil" is wrong

like any other tool, it depends on how it's used

and I'd like to see what anyone's suggestion for an alternative way forward is

Re: Secrets you're too lazy to make

[(Anonymous)]

This isn't a case of mob justice

Re: Secrets you're too lazy to make

[(Anonymous)]

I think he’s a fine VA and has voiced many of my favorite characters (Tamaki, Dark, Ed, Greece, Broly), but I’ve long since seperated him from the characters he voices because I’ve been hearing shit about him since the early FMA days. I have friends who’ve met him and said he was awesome ‘cause he gave them all hugs and kisses, but all I could think of was how skeeved out I would be if a stranger hugged and kissed me without my permission. Him voicing some of my faves would not have made that situation any better. I think he did want to make his fans happy and cater to a certain fangirl fantasy initially, but he went too far with it for too damn long and doesn’t seem to understand that he’s done wrong (nor does he care to do so) because he’s an egotistical asshole. As much as I liked him as Broly, I wouldn’t want him voicing the character in a new game or new season of Super unless he apologizes and changes his ways. Honestly, if somebody was working for a company and being inappropriately touchy-feely with clients, they would’ve gotten canned by HR if enough complaints came in, so I don’t see how this is any different.