[ SECRET POST #1351 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1351 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:



Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 111 secrets from Secret Submission Post #193.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - unreadable ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom.livejournal.com]

120. http://i53.tinypic.com/2gtu8og.jpg

[nextian.livejournal.com]

Out of curiosity, OP, am I one of 'em? I won't be hurt. (W-well yes I will but my curiosity outweighs my desire to be cosseted TBH.)

[(Anonymous)]

I looked at your journal and I didn't see any art. If you would like an honest opinion, give me a link. I promise not to be mean.

[nextian.livejournal.com]

Well, here's my Yuletart stuff. (http://community.livejournal.com/yuletart/70931.html)

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Nope! I did see your work - it's not amazing, but it wasn't one of the art posts that led to this secret. I think it looks rather sweet, and has personality.

Another anon has pointed out some technical faults, but my issue here isn't the technical faults which some pieces have, since it's an exchange and all that - what I take issue with is sheer lack of quality (and, sometimes, apparent effort).

Re: OP

[nextian.livejournal.com]

Well, I disagree with you, but I appreciate you takin' the time to crit. :)

[caelith.livejournal.com]

And I'm sure someone will say exactly the same thing about your efforts.

[(Anonymous)]

I get where you're coming from. I've seen some art in holiday exchanges that was frankly awful and while I appreciate that people participate at all, some of this stuff either has no effort put into it or is just flat-out awful. I kinda get embarrassment squicked when people make fake gushing comments about art so bad that I wouldn't put it on my fridge if my kindergartner drew it.

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

art so bad that I wouldn't put it on my fridge if my kindergartner drew it.

The only comfort here is knowing that line was hyperbole.

If it wasn't, please never have children you can then scar for life.

[(Anonymous)]

My parents wouldn't hang my grade school art.

Didn't scar me at all.

I sell my stuff now, and they hang it proudly.

It was shit then.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, the fake gushing comments in the Yuletart comm were really off-putting, too.

[alchemy]

As I already mentioned below, I think you may be missing the point. I am not as good at commenting to Yuletart posts as some others, but I can sincerely say that none of my comments were fake. This may have to do with a difference in how we each perceive "art." Personally, I find the act of creating something to be wonderful, and I'm always so glad to see someone else engaging in it. It makes me happy, regardless of how polished a piece is. Furthermore, there's always something nice to say about artwork, and while con-crit has its place, Yuletart isn't it. I see nothing wrong with simply being nice to each other in fandom for once. I say this as someone who has been involved in fandom art activities and running fanart fests for years.

Art isn't fic: Praising it doesn't mean the artist simply plateaus and never gets better. You don't get stuck in bad practices simply because someone was nice about your work. Praising art means the artist is encouraged to create more, the experience of which helps them become more skilled.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sure the artists you're talking about feel like shit afterwards. I feel like shit for thinking about filling prompts when they're so much more talented people than me out there, y'know.

[(Anonymous)]

It's one reason I only do art exchanges in communities that I have a lot of friends on. NGL, it's a little disheartening when you turn out near-professional work, and you get something that's very...not in exchange, but if it's a community of people I've been a part of for awhile, I don't really care if it's spiffy or not, because dude, my friend drew me a nifty picture!

Which is always nice.

[(Anonymous)]

"Standards" for art have actually always weirded me out. Really--if it's not your thing, okay, but no matter how "bad" it may seem to you, it must appeal to somebody. Like, you know, the person receiving the gift.

Don't be a snob, OP. :)

[(Anonymous)]

Look, artistic sensibilities vary and all, but we're talking art exchanges. You might have actual skill and labor for hours making someone something very special, only to receive a piece of art that consists of repulsive lumpy chibis that in no way resemble the characters of whatever fandom it is.

It just sucks, and there's a big difference between "this isn't my style," which is okay, and "this person cannot draw for beans," in which case they should know better than to enter an art exchange.

[(Anonymous)]

I can understand being disappointed, but that is the problem with being exceptionally good at anything--you just have to deal with the fact that some people don't live up to your skill level.

This goes double for art exchanges/fic exchanges, and if it is that big of a deal, you can always ask for/find a sample of their artwork before slaving over something unique.

[(Anonymous)]

I've gotten into spectacular amounts of wank over this. Most people simply cannot tell the difference, and the lousy artists are not good enough to know that they *suck.* If you can't deal with the sprogs, you're better off just not participating.

[1strangepirate.livejournal.com]

I don't mean this in a narcissistic way, but with a reference I could rattle off a fairly good realistic pen sketch people would like in fifteen minutes. That's because I've spent years practicing and DRAWING DRAWING DRAWING and it's developed skill, not effort.

If I were to take part in an exchange, though, I'd think a lot about what I was drawing and spend at least a few hours on it and make it very detailed and try to create something I think the person I'm creating it for would like- that's not skill, it's effort. I'd rather get something with a lot of effort put into it by someone who genuinely cared about giving me a nice gift than a technically-great piece someone put little to no effort into. No skill and no effort is what I think a lot of people here are talking about and that would suck too, but, uh, either way.

Don't get me wrong! I'd be happy to have either and would appreciate either. But for me it wouldn't be about skill but more the love put into a gift, and if I'd spent hours on something nice and got something (technically shitty looking or not) that obviously had little love or care put into it, I wouldn't complain as to not seem like an ass or hurt the giver's feelings, but I would probably not be happy :(

It's like money spent on a tangible gift vs how thoughtful it is, I guess? An expensive or rare gift can be cool but if it's not what you wanted and shows no insight by the giver (or shows the opposite) then I'd prefer something cute from the dollar store tbqh

MAYBE THAT'S CONCEITED AND SELFISH. it probably is. I was brought up to appreciate anything I'm given. I do, but I can't really help being moved more by some gifts than others and I don't really blame people who put effort into one of those things and get little back in return for being disappointed

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with this. My thing is when people try to do something they obviously can't. Abstract can be really good so why not go with that if you don't know anatomy?

Yes, art is objective but... yeah... Sometimes it is just plain bad.

[fangirlism]

You, sir or madam, are an asshole. And yuletart doesn't need someone like you participating alongside the rest of us.

What's your opinion on us who submit crafts, by the way?

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Frankly, I think submitting art that is nowhere near appropriate/adequate as a 'gift' makes one even more of an asshole.

I don't see why you're interested in the opinion of an asshole, but: if the crafts are of good quality, then sure, why not. If they're something that a ten-year-old could have done, then... yeah, giving something like that as a gift is not really nice.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, please. It's very nice to have that attitude, but if you'd ever been in the position of spending a lot of time and effort crafting a gift for a fest and then received a piece of absolute crap in return, you'd know how we feel. Hell, I've run a couple of fests where I either got shafted entirely or received the laziest, shittiest "gift'' imaginable and it just really sucks a lot.

If people are going to be gifting others with their fanwork they need to take a step back to judge that fanwork and realize whether or not it's suitable, and sometimes it just isn't. I'm not trying to be mean to artists, but it's also that people get a lot of false validation from sending substandard art to fests - nobody can say anything truthful, so the artist receives only praise and isn't driven to improve and the cycle continues.

I think crafts for fests are totally awesome, but the same standards apply and if the stuff is daycare-quality I hope you wouldn't send it.

[(Anonymous)]

All of you complainers are obviously missing the point of a yule time exchange. You may love what you get, or hate it, but it is one of those times when it really is "the thought that counts." Before you jump into the exchange, you know what you're signing up for.

Just like most well brought up people would smile and thank an aunt or cousin for an off the wall present, and do the same to a fellow student or colleague participating in a secret santa exhange, people should maybe learn to do the same in fandom exchanges of this sort. That, or create your own comm where you have high standards and tests and scoring before anyone is allowed in to participate.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

The difference is that family gift-giving and workplace/school secret santa exchanges have elements of societal/familial obligation. No one is obliged to sign up to a fandom gift exchange. If you know that your work is substandard but you sign up for a gift exchange anyway, then that just seems greedy.

I don't think you can say that it's "the thought that counts" - these people seem to be signing up for a gift exchange for their own benefit. If you really just wanted to make nice things for people, you'd be giving unprompted giftart to your friendslist, or signing up for one of those fests where prompts are visible to all, and filling prompts without expecting anything in return.