[ SECRET POST #1446 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1446 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 13 pages, 302 secrets from Secret Submission Post #207.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom.livejournal.com]

04. http://i53.tinypic.com/2hz7oxw.jpg

[blackjackrocket.livejournal.com]

What about series where the yaoi overtones are part of the storyline? Here I'm specifically thinking of From Eroica With Love, but there's bound to be others (my manga reading is sadly behind).

[(Anonymous)]

The yaoi undertones in Eroica aren't very ambiguous.

[sarolynne.livejournal.com]

So... do you also refuse to read things with random panty shots/easily destroyed clothing/gratuitous toplessness/randomly pretty or sexualized fight scenes and or injuries/a tentacle monster of the week/any of the VAST array of other devices authors include? Would you look down on it the same of one of the characters were female so it was more of a het ship tease?

I can understand disliking excessive fanservice, but singling out yaoi and yaoi fans makes you seem like sorta a douche, honestly.

[philonecron.livejournal.com]

And how do you feel about works where women have their boobs hanging out

how do you feel about works with lesbian or straight undertones

oh right, those are for *straight dudes* and *straight dudes* DON'T SQUEAL :\

[(Anonymous)]

Right, because obviously a mangaka can't possibly draw yaoi/yuri/whatever undertones (or even overtones) because they personally enjoy it.
Also, good luck with finding manga that doesn't contain fanservice.
My God you're so ridiculous I don't even know why I'm replying xD

[cloud-riven.livejournal.com]

Why specifically yaoi fanservice? I get what you're saying here, and fan pandering does irk me to some degree, but with so much media being written by and for a straight male audience, why is it that the stuff that panders to, let's say, yaoi fangirls, worse than that? If that's the case, and how you feel that is.

Personally, I just want my stories to be able to stand by themselves without needing to keep the audience's attention like that. It's one thing to have it in moderation, and to have fun with it, it's another when it becomes alienating. Not much of an opinion on Black Butler though as I haven't seen/read it.

[(Anonymous)]

lol the comments just show what an ~art form~ manga/anime is. the suggestions are that you will find it very hard to find a manga/anime that isn't mostly fanservice, and anyway how dare you not want to read about gay ust in a manga! I guess people just don't like you insulting their precious gay pedo mangas~

[westminster-son.livejournal.com]

Right, because canon homosexuality is just weird, I mean, what's next, that people suggest gay people exist and have gay relationships in real life, and that manga and anime like any other art form might be allowed to portray real life relationships and sexual identity in their own canon, and that some queer men (self included) might appreciate the canonical representation?

Why the very thought of it. Quick, quick, someone call the thought police!

Snark aside - can canon yaoi be an expression of fanservice (not that I really understand what's wrong with fanservice but whatever)? Of course it can. But sometimes it's planned, and I honestly don't see what's wrong with that - and I think it's definitely planned here.

[(Anonymous)]

This secret is so bizarre and silly. Thank you for a good RL LOL, OP!

Credibility? What are you even on about?
Fanservice is as old as art itself. How do you even differentiate between the author/mangaka/playwright writing/drawing something because they themselves find it hot, and the act of fanservice. And why does it matter?

I can maybe understand that you could feel iffy about an author/mangaka 'selling out', but even in such a situation it's difficult to know if they planned the development all along, and it's just you feeling they're selling out because canon took a turn you didn't like.

And not that it's any of my business, but do you ever sound like a joyless tightass. 'Credibility.' IDEK

[lesbido.livejournal.com]

I don't see how ambiguous yaoi undertones could be just about fanservice. Or even intentional. Japan has different definitions of its male relationships than we do.

[(Anonymous)]

Didn't she use to be a BL mangaka? Maybe she's just doimg what she likes, or even toning it down for the wider audience.

[(Anonymous)]

I also refuse to read any manga with het undertones specifically designed to bait girls into reading it.

[(Anonymous)]

I really don't care that you don't read them but saying all yaoi/gay undertones are fan service is kind of lame and I can't take this secret seriously anymore

[wandering-son.livejournal.com]

<3
Not to mention its boring as fuck. Its just got 'pretty' art.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Righto, I could've worded the secret better.

My secret wasn't about fanservice itself (it exists and nobody can help it), it was about using gay undertones as a form of fanservice. With the manga I've read it's much more common than lesbian undertones, though I dislike both equally.

Basically I don't think the concept of homosexuality should be treated as mere fetish fuel. I don't see it as a very tasteful approach to the subject. Can't an implied couple be honestly canon gay so it's actually meaningful plotwise and NOT just "act a little queer tee-hee" for the sole purpose of inspiring the audience to fap?

[twenty-rooks.livejournal.com]

You refuse to read manga where the some of the hinted couples happens to be homosexual? And you see no reason why such hints would be there but for to please "squealing" fans with "fanservice"?

I usually don't throw this word around OP, but that really is a bit homophobic. And also really insulting to fans of manga with m/m couples, hinted at or not.

[akai_senshi.livejournal.com]

I don't read said "yaoi undertone" manga if the author is blatantly doing such to gain fans- but I do read them when it's Author Appeal. (There is somewhat of a difference, IMHO, similar to the difference between the people who write fanfiction primarily for themselves as opposed to the ones who write for reviews.)

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I understand.

What I DON'T understand is why you used a shonen manga to illustrate the point you're trying to make? The intended audience is not the fan girls.

[pimmy.livejournal.com]

I THOUGHT ALL THESE REPLIES WOULD BE PEOPLE AGREEING WITH OP BUT I GUESS NOT.

Screw "pandering" manga of any kind. Stuff with "teehee boys acting gay" is just as bad as shit like Highschool of the Dead where it's boobsboobsboobs everywhere. Like OP said in the followup post, it's just.. not cool.

Sort of related: I was at an anime convention panel and they played clips of Ouran Highschool Host Club. I liked the anime myself, because of it's ironic take on the shoujo genre, but there were girls next to me ACTUALLY SQUEELING at the flowery humor bits. You know, the parts that were suppose to be over the top and funny? Nope, they were taking that shit at FACE VALUE like the irony was completely lost on them.
This is the kind of people I think of when I see stuff like Kuroshitsuji.

[kinosino.livejournal.com]

Seems like it'd be a hard thing to judge - with the right fans, anything with two or more relatively good-looking males who interact at all could have "yaoi undertones". Where do you draw the line between intentional titillation from the author and fans' slash goggles?

[citrinesunset.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I have much of an opinion about manga in particular, but in general, this bothers me a lot, too.

It's not that I don't like sexual undertones and ambiguous relationships -- I love them sometimes. But representation of gay characters has a long history of being "ambiguous" in order to not offend or attract controversy. And sometimes I feel like writers are aware that by creating subtext, they'll attract the attention of people who are really desperate for gay characters (whether they're yaoi fangirls or queer people who would really like some representation) without having to actually write gay characters. There's nothing wrong with subtext, but it's nothing to get too excited about, either.

I'm not sure if the trends I've recognized in western media really apply to manga, and there are probably particulars that I'm not aware of, but I can definitely relate to where you're coming from, on principle.

[(Anonymous)]

let me simplify this secret: "no homo"

[masked-creator.livejournal.com]

But how do you know if it's on purpose or not? And sometimes that kind of thing is part of the story building up to a relationship. I don't read the series in the picture, so I don't know if this applies, but I'm just sayin'.

[cruciger.livejournal.com]

I agree. Can we stop with UST and give m/m relationships some acknowledgment in the same way m/f relationships get it, please? Yami no Matsuei, Kyo Kara Maoh, Saint Beast, and like half the non-porn anime based on a BL game ever, I'm looking at you.