[ SECRET POST #1766 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1766 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03. [repeat]


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05. [repeat]


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.


__________________________________________________



12.


__________________________________________________



13. [repeat]


__________________________________________________



14.


__________________________________________________



15.


__________________________________________________



16.


__________________________________________________



17.


__________________________________________________



18. [repeat]


__________________________________________________



19.


__________________________________________________



20.


__________________________________________________



21.


__________________________________________________



22.


__________________________________________________



23.


__________________________________________________



24.


__________________________________________________



25.


__________________________________________________



26.


__________________________________________________



27.


__________________________________________________



28.


__________________________________________________



29.


__________________________________________________



30.


__________________________________________________



31.


__________________________________________________



32.


__________________________________________________



33.


__________________________________________________



34.


__________________________________________________



35.


__________________________________________________



36.


__________________________________________________



37.


__________________________________________________



38.


__________________________________________________



39.


__________________________________________________



40.


__________________________________________________



41.


__________________________________________________



42.
[was accidentally labeled a repeat before]


__________________________________________________






Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #252.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - repeat ], [ 1 2 3 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

NOPE.

The Doctor should have remained asexual from the very start. (Don't cite Susan at me, a biological link was never implied. Don't cite 9 at me, it's not canon as far as I'm concerned.)

He's become a proxy for the writers to imagineer their ~ideal romance~ and it's fucking shitty writing. He's a teacher, not a peer and a 900 year old being 'lusting' for 20 year old white girls is creepy at best.

[(Anonymous)]

(Don't cite Susan at me, a biological link was never implied. Don't cite 9 at me, it's not canon as far as I'm concerned.)

Hahahahahahaha. Oh wow. This screams of 'it doesn't fit in with what I believe is canon, so it's not real, it never happened, lalalalala I can't hear yooooou!'.

Four and Romana. Eight and Grace. Ten and everyone he could lay eyes on. Eleven and River. Is it such a bad thing for someone whose lived so long to have an interest in romance, love, and even sex? He doesn't have to remain ~untouchable~ just because he's supposedly all-powerful and super smart.

[wldcatsprstr-14.livejournal.com]

That's exactly what I was thinking. "As far as I'm concerned" automatically denotes "I reject your reality and substitute my own."

Is it such a bad thing for someone whose lived so long to have an interest in romance, love, and even sex? He doesn't have to remain ~untouchable~ just because he's supposedly all-powerful and super smart.

FREAKING THIS. Jeez, people. Falling in love or having sex isn't going to ruin his character.

[(Anonymous)]

But it did.

More to the point, why does what is ostensibly a children's program HAVE to include romance? What happened to stories being made out of adventure, sci-fi and drama?

[wldcatsprstr-14.livejournal.com]

It doesn't HAVE to include romance. But if, as you say, the Doctor has never had a romancee/been a romantic figur in the past, what's wrong with him having one/being one now? Cuz going on what you're saying, a very small portion of DW history has involved romantic relationships, specifically the newer portion. Going on what you've said, it's a new side of the Doctor that has never been shown before. What's wrong with showing that? I agree that the way his relationships end up isn't always great but it's not always the same old story. So far in NuWho, we've had a reciprocated romance, a one-sided relationship that made a character realize her worth, a fierce friendship that helped the Doctor acknowledge his flaws, and a completely rejected crush that eventually ends in a couple in the TARDIS with the Doctor. So many different types of relationships.

And the discussion about DW being a children's program has been had so many times that there's nothing left to say. DW isn't a children's program. Judging by how many fans are adults, I'd say it's decidedly a family program.

[(Anonymous)]

The fact that he's never been a romantic figure is the reason I have a problem with him being one now. I don't really object to romance in Who alltogether; Jo left to be with her husband, Ian and Barbara might as well have been married, etc. There are so many problems making the Doctor romantic that I can't list them all but I'll try;

- lose the wizard/mentor archetype, which immediately eliminates the prospect of character development where he assists companions in their learning about the universe, morals, etc

- lose the prospect of character development where companions disagree with him and assert it (Jamie commenting on the Doctor's morality, Donna not taking any shit from him)

- get rid of agency from companions in love with him. Rose no longer had ambition outside of the Doctor, River had no life outside of the Doctor, poor Martha had no agency outside of the Doctor till she decided to leave him, which was a waste of a character opportunity considering she was a doctor herself and could have learnt so much had they not focused on her crush so much

- typecast actors playing the doctor to appeal to a very narrow view of the female gaze- young, athletic, hot

- Family program still means something you can show to children. Sort of related, but I find it very sad that the Doctor is no longer for a lot of fans someone they'd want to learn from and be friends with but someone they want to bone

- Immediate problem when we start to explore the Doctor's sexuality. Is he heterosexual, and is he turned on by standard Western tropes of sexuality that are very limiting? (so far we've seen him attracted to fair western women who he exerts a lot of authority over). That turns the doctor in to a Man, not an Alien with alien tastes and so forth, and frankly I don't want to have to YET AGAIN deal with the male gaze being applied in what is escapism for me. Not to mention the problems with his authority and the very inequal relationships that have been portrayed so far.

I don't expect anyone to respond to these, they're just some of the reasons I don't like a sexual doctor.

[cdaae.livejournal.com]

I don't know what anon's reasoning is, but for me, almost none of the romantic relationships involving the Doctor we've been shown have felt entirely realistic or satisfactory. I could never really buy them (except for the Girl in the Fireplace).

I don't agree with anon that the Doctor should necessarily remain entirely asexual; I just think keeping him that way would have been better than substandard romances, particularly romances where there is such a massive power difference. As anon said, 900+ year old Time Lord, with 20 year old Earthling... yuck. Maybe I don't quite buy that Doctor because I don't want to buy that Doctor. If the romance was with more of an equal, another alien with a long lifespan and similar intelligence, I might not find it as grating.

None of this spoils my enjoyment of the show too very much, because I largely just ignore the bits I don't like with Doctor Who, old or new. But if they'd stop putting so much attention on the romance, and put more back into the adventure, sci-fi and drama, I think it'd make the show stronger.

[cdaae.livejournal.com]

More to the point, why does what is ostensibly a children's program HAVE to include romance? What happened to stories being made out of adventure, sci-fi and drama?

This. So, so, so much this.

[(Anonymous)]

"More to the point, why does what is ostensibly a children's program HAVE to include romance? What happened to stories being made out of adventure, sci-fi and drama?"

IAWTC

[criedtherabbit.livejournal.com]

More to the point, why does what is ostensibly a children's program HAVE to include romance? What happened to stories being made out of adventure, sci-fi and drama?

Because any good story should deal with the overarching themes of the human experience, whether or not is it a "children's" story. You may as well ask why any story deals with loss, death, growing up, etc. These are the experiences that inform existence for the majority of the population. When you dress down adventure and science-fiction stories, you'll find that they feature the same architecture (as in, archetypal themes) that held up the primordial stories people told when language was new.

[(Anonymous)]

Four and Romana were never romantically involved, what you're reading into is Tom Baker and Lalla Ward's off screen romance that failed tragically. By 'nine' I meant 'eight' (whoops) and that telemovie certainly didn't give Dr Who a new lease of life.

Ten and Eleve's "romances" were written awfully. I prefer to think of them as never happening, to be quite honest, rather than excuse the shoddy work of two writers having a battle as to who can make the "best" Doctor romance. How on earth did the romance lend anything to Rose's character? Or Martha's? Or even the godawful River Song who was so inconsistent and cringeworthy even when she wasn't a psychopath who killed for no good reason (something the Doctor has traditionally never stood for)

Your 'hahaha oh wow' doesn't win you any points because I quite happily like to pretend something never happened rather than lend legitimacy to a writer's pissing contest.

[(Anonymous)]

Ignoring canon because you don't agree with it is find if you're writing fic/labeling it AU. But to just say it's NOT canon because you don't agree with it? Canon doesn't work that way.

Do the writers suck at writing believable romances involving the Doctor? Abso-fucking-lutely. I will completely agree with you on that. But to say someone 'should stay asexual' when they were never proven to be asexual (and fathered a child, which doesn't mean anything w/regards to sexuality one way or another, but certainly can't be erased from view either) just because the writers suck is kind of pointless.

That's like saying romance novels shouldn't have couples in them if the writer sucks, or moves shouldn't get happy endings because the writers dropped so many plot holes along the way that the Titanic probably fell into one.

[(Anonymous)]

?? I said I preferred not to accept it, though I have long grudgingly accepted that this is what they choose Dr Who to be. I know how canon works, I'd just rather pick and choose what I consume.

The Doctor never fathered a child; there's no biological link asserted between him and Susan. I also said he SHOULD have (not that he IS) been asexual from the start because a teacher/mentor/wizard archetype is so much more interesting than an Everyhero (young, fit, sexy)... bring back the Pertwees and the Troughtons because it allows so much more scope for character development beyond 'teenage girl new to the universe has a crush' (or... that hot mess River Song was)

And that's a poor analogy; romance novels include couples by definition of the genre. Romance has never really been a staple of action/sci-fi/educational programs.

[(Anonymous)]

Romance has never really been a staple of action/sci-fi/educational programs.

Oh if only. I have yet to be able to just sit and watch things blow up without a romance plot shoved in there.

-James Bond
-Indiana Jones
-every Bruce Willis movie ever made
-even my GI Joes didn't escape the romance!

Also, probably not the best source, but better than some;

"The Doctor consistently maintained that Susan was his biological granddaughter — or at the very least that it was likely, because he had a family in the sense that humans understood."

Sauce. (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Susan_Campbell)

[fenm.livejournal.com]

The Doctor never fathered a child

He's stated he's been a father. I suppose you could argue he adopted, but that feels a bit like hearing hoof prints and looking for zebras instead of horses.

[canadian-kazz.livejournal.com]

+1

[(Anonymous)]

I don't believe the Doctor absolutely has to be asexual (that was kind of killed from 8 on) but I do agree a lot of his epic romances have ended in really shitty writing.

I actually think some of his one-off romances were better written then the long term ones, so I guess I am mainly against him having long term romance (I could buy the doctor being more of a swinger type LOL)

[(Anonymous)]

>20 year old white girls
>white girls
>white

i c wut u did thar

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I mean, I didn't know Martha was white. I'm glad she pointed this out to me.

[(Anonymous)]

Congratulations, you found something where it didn't exist!

[(Anonymous)]

Do I get a pony?!

[(Anonymous)]

What? He never reciprocated Martha's feelings.

[fenm.livejournal.com]

Yeah. But am I think only won who thinks Alex Kinsgton obviously has some African heritage? I remember when her and Eriq LaSalle's characters on ER got involved, and some people were upset that he was with a White women. I was like, "White woman...?"

[silver-miko.livejournal.com]

.....I'm glad I'm not the only one. I think this too.

[(Anonymous)]

Ok, i hope i'm missing something here, but...do you actually mean that some people think the actress who plays "Martha" is white? Please tell me i'm confusing names/facts here. The alternative would be..yeah, i'm speechless.